Today, we're talking about the real ministry
beyond the pulpit with Pastor Lee
Wells, who pastors Rock Landmark in Rockwall, Texas.
He also owns a. Ranch to table restaurant has his own cattle ranch and he's owned several businesses over the years worked corporal corporate world. He has tons of experience with real ministry. He knows what it's about. We're going to get down to business before we do take a moment to follow or like or subscribe whatever social media you're following us on.
That way you can find us quicker next time. We'd appreciate it. Lee, thanks for joining
us today. I'm glad to be here.
So real ministry, talk to me about it. Tell me what's your idea of real
ministry is. Well, I think that to start off, a lot of times, at least when I was younger, I thought that ministry equaled a pulpit.
I thought that even real ministry, you know, I would, I would clean the bathrooms or I'd vacuum the floor. I'd work around the church, but really, you know, my, I was kind of on that pulpit and I think that we're not careful. Sometimes we can equate ministry to standing in a pulpit, and the bigger the pulpit, kind of the more successful we feel that we are.
And I just don't think we see that when we study the life of Jesus. I don't think he gave as much credence to the crowd size or the pulpit. As he did working and just walking and talking and being around people and having relationships with people. That's right.
You mentioned those different job titles.
We have a habit of ranking them, but all 12 disciples were called disciples. John referred to himself as the one whom he loveth. But only he called himself that the rest of them just called him John. You know, they were all just disciples.
I like, we
do have a habit of putting the pulpit higher and Jesus did not do that.
He valued everybody
in every way.
Give me another example of what he would do different. I don't think. I don't think he would be licensed today. I don't think he would fit the mold of any investment. You and I are both licensed in the same organization, so I'm not anti organization. Sure. What I'm saying is I don't think Jesus would fit the mold of any organization.
I think we're too manmade expectations.
Maybe I think, I think so. I think that when we look at kind of how our organization is structured, how our church services are structured, I think that, I don't know that any of that would match what happened 2, 000 years ago. You know, if you imagine a synagogue service or something, or they're reading from the scrolls or, you know.
And when Ezra read the word and you know, no one, no one sat down. I mean, just the different types of services that we see, I don't think that they necessarily had, you know, three or four songs and took up an offering and preached, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. There's, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.
And Jesus moves right in the middle of all of that. So there's. Don't don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I think there's a value to all of those things that we do, but I think we do them differently than they did it. And I think that we sometimes can get. Hold to the side or maybe too focused on the methodology of how we have church and we miss that ministry happens every day with every word and every response that we, we make.
We're either glorifying God in our day to day life. Or we're not, we're either bringing glory and reflecting his, his power and his love and his spirit through our life, or we're not. And there's going to be more people probably that see us day to day than what would be seeing us on a Sunday. I think the Bible even, you know, the Bible even says that, Where are the epistles?
Maybe the only epistles that some would read. So I think Jesus portrayed that beautifully. I do. I do too.
I was thinking as you were something you said this time is it's, it's sparked a thought. I've read your book, burger brilliance. I really liked it. And you were talking about touch and the impact that it has.
You'd like to go around your, your, your restaurant and shake hands. And there really is a power to that and significance of it. But I wonder if we neglect the power of ministry. in between church services, up early and speaking to somebody and staying after service to speak to somebody. Our churches today just have such a habit of getting there just in time and
leaving
as soon as possible as if the songs and the altar call is the only part of the ministry.
What do you think? Well, I think, you know, Acts 2 and 42 is very, very clear on what the apostles doctrine is and what was expected of the church and fellowship. Is a foremost mentioned concept, breaking a bread. I mean, I know we get, we get a hard time around Pentecostal church. Cause we got to go eat after church, but it's spiritual.
There is something spiritual, very spiritual about connecting and being around people who are spiritual. Touch physically putting your arm around a brother, you know, shaking the hand of of a friend there's something about that that is is so powerful and in healing and ministry and connection that A song doesn't, it doesn't fulfill and the preached word doesn't fulfill.
And, you know, the various, you know, personal Bible study doesn't fulfill. There is an act of ministry that we have to do in the physical that I believe Jesus displayed beautifully. You know, we, we look at the scriptures where. He sat down and ate in people's homes. I think we romanticize that a lot of times and we think, well, those weren't, you know, those, those weren't too bad of people, but really when you look at it, he sat with people and they made him food and served him food and he sat and ate.
And conversed with women who were being paid to, to lay and, and be sexually active with men that were not their husband. We, we see the hatred of the tax collector, the crooked of society, those who were skimming off the top. These were Jewish people who were hated because they were working for the Roman government.
And then of course the taxation was insane. And so these are the people that were hated by society that Jesus sat with and. Cut up with, had a real connection with so much. So that many of them followed him and they actually changed their life. They were delivered and they were saved because they spent time around the table, breaking bread and fellowshipping with Jesus, which I think would be awesome, by the way.
Yeah, but, but I also think that he would, he would have a, and we don't really see it very well, but I believe he would have a real cool, Amazing personality. I mean, you, you don't get 5, 000 men and all their wives and all their children out to, to follow you into a desert. If you don't have something impactful to say in a way that is gripping in a way that is compelling.
And so I think that the way that he communicated in the audiences that he had showed that he was, he had a personality. I mean, if he built us and made us like we are. To laugh and cut up and have a good time and sing and enjoy life. He built emotions. Why wouldn't he have the whole array of emotions too?
And so I think sometimes we, we kind of romanticize the word and we put it into our own context and our own culture. And we miss the richness of what was really happening, which is real sinners. Sitting with a savior, eating food that they prepared, telling the joke, laughing, enjoying each other's conversation to the place where they saw that there was a real opportunity for real change in their life.
And he won them over through, through life, not, not a sermon and I'm not against sermons. I preach them every week. He did it through relationship. And I think that's, that's really behind, you know, when you step away from the pulpit and you step into real life, the question becomes, what are we doing every day to compel someone to leave their sinful life and join us.
In our walk with the Lord, what, what are we doing to show someone there's hope there's life, there's help. There's another way. And I think that's ministry. I think that's the definition of ministry.
Dude, you said so much just now. I don't want to ignore all of it. I want to go back and hopefully we will dissect all of it, but I want to go back to the beginning.
When you talk about, we romanticize and we paint a prettier picture of these people than what it realistically was. And, and that speaks volumes. And to me, that's so real because as I'm, as I'm mentoring, God has blessed me with wonderful help. And I'm so thankful for the Rankins and the Sanfords, and I wouldn't want to do this without them.
And, but I'm trying to get them to see, not that they don't see, but I really want them particularly to see the realness and the patience it takes with different people in different situations. So as I do this podcast for the sake of helping young ministers, We need to see things like that. When you mentioned we romanticize and I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but it just made me think, why do we do that?
And I wonder if we never got past our Sunday school illustrations, the pretty safe drawings of somebody, the beggar on the street, the pretty safe drawing of the demoniac. And I'm not here to advocate Hollywood, but when passion of the Christ came out, there were people who preached against it just because it was too bloody, but
Calvary
was a
bloody event, but
you can't paint that pretty and neat.
And fully appreciate what it was, but we need to ministry is ugly, but Bible talks about the hardships of ministry, endure the hardships of ministry. It gets ugly. And sometimes that ugly is dealing with the realness of people. Like you were talking about the bill in. Not that they're, they, they, their lives are ugly.
That's what I'm trying to say. Their world is dark and we need to go in there. We, we need to get our hands dirty and be patient with them and love them.
And, and, and, and, you know, Jesus, Jesus didn't miss anything. He, he wasn't ignoring anything. He never condoned the sin. He never, he never said, oh, it's okay.
Right. So I get where you're coming from, man. It's all good. He never said that. And because he never said that yet, he. Sat with them and ate their food and talked with them in their home. He built a bridge that they could cross and come to him. A lot of times we think that ministry is meeting people in the middle.
And it's really not, it's being who we are in a way that they can approach us. They can approach. The truth, because you can't compromise the truth and hold the truth. And so, when we see Jesus sitting at a table with a prostitute, or sitting at a table with the most hated of society, He's not saying, oh, it's all good.
He was saying, Listen to what I have to say, listen to the heart that I'm sharing with you, feel the peace that, that I'm reflecting from heaven into your home and your life. And when you do that, I'm giving you a place that you can approach to have that too. A lot of times we think of, especially in young, young ministries and youth pastors, and I was one, I've done the, you know, the whole circuit, the whole preaching rallies and youth camps and.
Conferences and stuff. And I think sometimes we think that what we're talking about when we're reaching the lost is meeting them halfway and somehow saying it's okay. Or somehow allowing them to think that, Oh, we're all cool together. And then somehow we're going to tell them that we're different. And that's not how it works.
We, we cannot compromise at all and win at all. We, Jesus didn't compromise at all. He was without sin and he was without the shadow of sin. There was, there was no way he could. Even wink at sin, he could only forgive sin. And the only way you can forgive sin is you have to abolish it by being completely opposite from it.
So you can't be accepting to sin and accepting that person and saying certain things are okay or all right or whatever. You still have to stand clean and you have to stand holy and you have to give them a place to approach and say, how do I get like that? How do I, how do I get to where you are? And it's not us, it's him in us.
But I think that a lot of times we lose our witness by trying to be what we think Jesus was. Amen. Amen. And, and, and again, we romanticize it and we think, oh, well, he had to be cool with them a little bit because, you know, they were understanding of each other and he, he, he didn't do that. He couldn't do that.
It was not in his nature to do it. So that's, that's my three cents on that. No, you're
right. He hung out with the people that were not even allowed to be in church because of their lifestyle. He still told the adulterous woman, go and sin no more. He was not contradicting when you, when you talk about trying to win them, you know, build a relationship.
And again,
this is your, you're my guest and I try not to talk too much when I have my guests on, but I wanted to share a thought and I didn't have my notes pulled up like I thought I did. So I'm going to break a podcast rule and go back to my computer here. For those that are listening, this is something that I shared with my Recently from my church.
And this is not me trying to make a mirror of my church. This is two separate things. So it's just a coincidence that this fits. So don't think that I'm doing that. It's not, it just, it kind of happens to fit. Mark 16 and 15. We know that as the great commission. And he said unto them, go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
And we understand that he's not just talking to the disciples, but this is the commandment, the commission to all the believers. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe. In my name, shall they cast out devils?
They shall speak with new tongues. We get excited. We like that. And the last one, they shall take up serpents. And if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them. They shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. He tells them to go preach Lee. But we're talking about ministry beyond the pulpit.
The word preacher was not referring to finding a pulpit. It was not referring to the synagogues. It's. Compelling, you know, he tells me going highways and byways hedges and compel them. It's trying to, I think when we were talking about this earlier, when the argument, I like your case for that, when the argument, whatever it takes.
And you can't do that with a stranger. That was someone that you've built a relationship
with. Absolutely.
Someone that knows you're invested in them. Someone that knows you care about them. Someone that knows you have their best interests. You've earned their trust. That is ministry. And that's beyond the pulpit
that that is how you live your life that that can't happen in a pulpit.
That's right It cannot pulpit is not going to be valid if you don't have the relationship outside of the pulpit To be able to let the pulpit speak into the life. You're just a talking head You're no different than Fox News when you're in the pulpit unless there's something else there with that relationship compelling them now once we are saved and we have The Holy ghost.
And we can, you know, discern and we, we know people are who they are. And we have guest ministers come in and we're like, man, this is awesome. But to that center, that that's just a person up
there. That's exactly right. I'm not clarifying that who we're talking about
here. Yeah, the center this to the center and to the center.
Our church is no different than the church down the street or the mega church across the highway. They come in and they don't know the differences like we do. I mean, we can tell the difference between every denomination and when they became that way and how they got shifted into what they are. And, you know, we can do that because we've studied all of that.
We know, but a center doesn't know the difference. They're just coming to church. Well, how are we going to connect with them in a way that they're going to hear what we have to say and this relationship and
to a world that's looking for help to a world that has snakes, serpents in their lives. And they're looking for healing and they're looking for a new language.
It tells them that these signs, they'll cast out those devils. They'll speak with those tongues, but these signs are looking for that. Those signs are looking for that evidence. They're looking for that hope. These signs shall follow, I don't have to go get a shovel and go dig for it. I don't have to do 10 Hail Marys.
I'm not trying to belittle somebody. I shouldn't have said that. You know what I'm trying to say? I don't have to go find it. It'll
follow, it'll follow in the life and the lifestyle that you live. I don't think Jesus, I don't think, yeah, I don't think Jesus ever preached at the table. I mean, they may have asked him to expound on something, but I don't, I think that the conversation would have been something similar to ours at an Applebee's or Chili's.
I think it was just conversation. And then from that, what followed and what flowed from. The heart that loved, you know, when Jesus arrived, the angels proclaimed his purpose and they was to save his people from their sins. That was the proclamation and I think that what we miss is, a lot of times, they're not our people.
Oh, that's good. They're not our people. They're, they're the people that, you know, have problems or the people that go, you know, they live over there. They're the people, they're not my people. And I don't think that Jesus. Would agree with that. I think that Jesus would be telling us make them your people and in that way You have a chance to reach them and give them to me and give me to them And I think that sometimes you know, the reason that Jesus was so effective Of course, we we know the all the philosophical spiritual But I think in real practice the reason that he was so effective was those were his people And he loved them.
I think the most heartbroken he ever was was when he returned home and he wanted to, he wanted to bless and heal those that grew up around him and those that he knew, you know, the guy that lived down across the street that he knew was lame. And the guy that was two blocks over that, you know, his hand was messed up.
And I think when Jesus went home, he, he, he wanted to do some really amazing things, but those people there wouldn't let him. And I think that that's, that's one of the most heartbreaking things we could ever even come up with is that when Jesus really wanted to, the people wouldn't let him. We have to get people to the place where they're open to receive the things of God.
And that comes more from outside the pulpit than behind the pulpit. And
you're exactly right. We have to get in there and. Earn their trust. When I've worked for Verizon wireless call center, people would call us and our goal personally, because we had quotas was to sell them a phone,
right?
But we were not allowed to start off with that.
Verizon's motto was earn the sale. We had to, we had to make sure that we solved their need first. Well, why did they call us? Was it a, an overage? Was it a bad bill, a bad, whatever their need was meet that need, earn their trust and earn that cell. If they caught us getting greedy and trying to sell a phone before we solved the need, We would get in trouble, even though I didn't have a quota for how many bills I fixed.
I didn't have a quota for how many customer complaints I solved. I had a quota for how many phones I sold, but before I could sell a phone, I had to do the
other things. Yes. Um, you had to, you had to meet a need and you know what people are pretty open about their needs. Really? They're pretty open about it.
They're pretty open about their. Desire for genuine connection. You know, it's, it's funny to me when I look out across the landscape of our society and I see guys like Jelly Roll being this super amazing, I mean, to most, to all these people, he's selling out concerts, crazy post Malone. We're talking about some characters here and, and, and they're, they're not typical.
They're not privileged. They're not, you know, silver spoon kind of. Kind of entertainers, but I think what that shows us is people are really tired of the polished and the perfect, and they're really looking for someone they can relate to. And I think that when we walk into their life, and we are real, we have real conversations, and we're not trying to.
We're not trying to sell them a phone. We're not trying to just get their ties. We're not trying to just get on, you know, get them in the church so we can have more people in the pew, but when they feel that, and when they know that we are really genuine and are, and we really do love like Jesus did, there's such an attraction to that genuine connection.
And I think the reason that these crazy dudes are making such a big tidal wave in the industries. That they're in is because people can relate to those, you know, face tattoos or whatever. They can relate to the real genuine story that they have. And I think that's, that's what Jesus did is he, he related, he was right there with them and he talked to them and he, he had a relationship that got them to the place where he could then tell them the supernatural.
He could then tell them the salvation. He could then tell them the things that are of eternal life. What a privilege it is when we get to do that.
Absolutely. I'm trying to think how I could start to wind this down and trying to picture myself as one of my listeners. If I was getting involved, what would I need to hear?
What would, what would help me? Um, in this situation, we've talked about getting, getting in there. You just got to get, get involved. Don't worry about what you look like. You know, don't worry about your image. If they think you're cool, if they think you're smart, they got to think you're real. They got to think you're authentic, that you're, that you care
about them.
And they can feel that people know that people know, I'll tell you a little quick, a quick story. If you don't mind, I was at the restaurant the other day and, you know, the lady came up to me, it was a busy Saturday night, people everywhere in the restaurant there. And let me just, I don't think I said that, but I have a restaurant.
You said an opening, but. My restaurant, I probably do more ministry on a Saturday night than I do in the pulpit on Sunday. I probably, and I don't have a Bible with me, but I'm, I'm talking to people. I'm relating to people. I'm shaking their hand. I'm connecting with people. I had a lady come up to me and she said, um, Mr.
Wells. I said, yeah, great to have you here. I hope you enjoy everything. She said, let me tell you, a couple weeks ago, we came in after We have a funeral home, a couple of miles up the road from where we are. She said, we came back through from burying my, my infant child. And she said, we had to get something to eat.
We hadn't eaten anything all day. So we came in and ate and she said, there was something about your food. And there was just something about this place. And I was having a bad day today. I was missing my baby. I had a bad day. And she said, I just had to come back here. I had to come back here, had to get some more of your food.
I had to just come back here. And I, I talked to her for a minute. I mean, we were both, you know, tearing up as we were talking and I told her how sorry it was for her, her loss of her baby and all of that, but there's something spectacular that happened when somebody walked into a restaurant, a place of business, right?
And they felt something so strong they had to come back for. Now, that's not a pulpit. That's, there's not a Bible in that facility. There's no sponsored by Landmark Fellowship on the wall. There's no, we don't have anything off, off putting or off color like that, but she knew inside her spirit that there was something that she had to come back for.
And I don't know if she'll come to church. I would love for her to, love for her to feel what a, What a Pentecostal service feels like, but at the end of the day, there was something very amazing that happened when she had to come back. What she said was eat our food, which she's not spiritual. She, you know, she doesn't go to church.
She doesn't know how to put it in terms like, like we know, you know, the peace of God that passes understand. I mean, she doesn't know any of that. She just knows, man, I got to get back there. I'm having a bad day. I got to get back there. And I think that that's true ministry, because no matter what. Kind of flyer we put on a car door.
You know, what kind of door hanger we hang on a door There's no comparison to something touching the spirit of a human being However, God can do it and God's gonna do that with human connection And there's a place for, I have to keep doing caveats here. There's a place for outreach and door knocking and all that.
But there's something powerful that happens when God can touch a soul and the spirit. And he, he did that when he sat down with sinners. He did that whenever he reached into the lives of people that others hated. And he did that, like you mentioned, when that, that lady was caught in adultery and He could have had her stoned right there.
They were ready. They had him in their hands, but he showed mercy and that mercy was so palatable. That mercy was so powerful that all he had to say was just, just don't ever do that again and go and sin no more. I mean, what a powerful, amazing word. Didn't take a text, didn't have an altar call, but right there in real life, changed that woman's life.
It's, it's what we, that's what we do. It's what we should be doing. We need to be finding places, I believe, to get involved in real people's lives, real situations. And Jesus, when he sat at dinner, he was genuine. He was relatable and he was also ministering at the same time. That's awesome.
In my final thoughts, Lee may add something here.
Listener, I just want to speak to you. He mentioned several wonderful stories, but when we think of Jesus speaking to the masses. I know the Bible does not quote everything, every moment of his life. So there may very well have been something that we're missing, but the Bible only shows him speaking to large crowds a handful, a couple of times.
Not, not as often as a small, right?
So by today's standards, he would not be a successful preacher, but he was an effective minister. His lifestyle was his do not measure your. Your validation by how often your phone rings to get invited to preach. Don't measure, don't validate your ministry by how big your pulpit is or what your job title is.
Validate your ministry. But how many people you're impacting
their lives, that's, that's real ministry beyond the pulpit. Absolutely. Lee, do you got anything else, brother? I just, in closing, I just, I'd like to mention to young people, young ministers, those that will be listening, an interesting thing I saw yesterday, uh, Matthew 11, Jesus rebuked his generation.
And this is interesting to me that, that Jesus rebuked his generation for rejecting John. John the Baptist for being too tight, and then they rejected him for being too loose. And I think that's hilarious because a lot of times, I mean, thinking of Jesus as loose and, you know, but compared to John, yeah, he's different.
He was completely different in his approach. And I think sometimes we get so focused like the Pharisees did on who's tight and who's loose, who's conservative, who's liberal, who's this, who's that. And it's just like our political climate right now. In the world, and that is if you're not like me, I can't, I can't get along with you.
And so if, if you're not as conservative as I am, then, you know, you're a liberal. You're not as conservative as a Republican as I am. You're a Rhino. I mean, there's these, these far extremes that we're reaching, you know, you're the Democrats are now these, you know, far left liberals or whatever. And that's the way we see people in these extremes.
That's the way people saw. In Jesus's day, these extremes, and I tell you, you'll miss. You'll miss a lot of right down the middle, great people, great opportunities. If you're, if you're stuck on this pharisaical idea of extremes, he said, don't be like that generation. Don't, don't look to the extremes. Just keep your head down, follow the spirit, follow the word of God, follow your pastor.
When you do those things, you just keep your head down. You keep touching the lives of those around you. Amen. God is going to reveal those ministry moments and those impacts are going to happen. And if I can tell you one more thing, just real quick, because I think, I think sometimes we get so, we get so twisted up in what we think good churches or what we think, you know, just this new year service, just so this a few weeks ago, it was a regular service to me.
Now I'm going to just be honest with you and tell you that sometimes, I'd rather stay home than preach holiday services. Easter to me is the biggest waste of time. Most of the time, it's the biggest crowd and the least that happens. Cause people are focused on going eating with mom and grandma and, you know, who's got the flowery dress on.
And I'm saying, you know, Jesus is coming and they're like, yep, I know. But you know, got to go at noon or whatever. And so it's the biggest potential and the least happening. Well. That's what this kind of New Year's was like that, you know, it was a Sunday. And I guess people had their parties and their events and their family deals.
And I was just, I preached, you know, we had an okay. I actually had some of my music was out, you know, that's a effect on a service for us Pentecostals and I preached and it, I didn't, I didn't think much was happening and I had a first time guest. She was her first time there. Her fiance, her husband had been there.
A week prior, two weeks prior, and it was her first time there. And I saw, I thought I saw her maybe wipe her eyes or something. And I thought, well, she ain't feeling nothing here. This is just one of them dead services. That's what I was saying while I was preaching. You know, I'm just straight with myself.
I'm like, I don't know. You must have allergies. Well, I shook his hand as they were leaving church. I said, man, good to see you again. I hope you come back. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I tried to shake her hand. She was trailing behind him. And she shows me two fistfuls of mascara stained Kleenex and she said, sorry, and she kind of shrugs her shoulders and she smiles and she says, sorry, like I, my hands are full.
I can't shake your hand. She said, we'll see it. We'll see you next week. And I thought to myself, you can't feel a first time. A second time, how we must take for granted the power and the presence of God that's in our services because we have grown so accustomed to what we feel and her first time in a Pentecostal service, I thought was a waste of everybody's time.
Really? I'm just being honest because I didn't, none of my people were moving. None of my people were really saying, amen. None of the good old saints were really going to have church. We were just going to get out of church and go eat. And that was a powerful lesson to me that, you know what, she was sitting in the richest spiritual environment she had ever sat in.
She could not handle it without weeping under the power of God that was there. And I don't ever want to take for granted the power of God in someone's life, whether I'm at a place of business, out in community or sitting at someone's house or in a dead service. It's amazing to me what God can do if we'll let it.
Yep. That's awesome. That is so awesome. Or maybe she did have an allergy. Pastor Wells, maybe she was allergic
to your preaching. That's very possible. Not what I got, but it's very possible. Sometimes I feel allergic to my preaching and I want to cry. Pastor Lee Wells
is a very good friend of mine. One of my best friends.
I thank you so much for coming out. I encourage you all to take a listen to his podcast, The Ranch and the Table. Go find his podcast. Restaurant Wells Cattle Company, downtown
Rockwall.
If you're ever in the Dallas Fort Worth area, swing on down to I 30 in Rockwall and check out Landmark Church. I don't think it says church on the door, it just says Landmark, right?
Landmark fellowship, landmark fellowship. I knew I was missing something. Check out the book, burger brilliance. It is about starting a restaurant and all the heart that goes into it and everything, but it's customer service, but it'll help you be a better person at the same time. So by all means, invest in his ministry.
And his
work, it'll help you. Thank you so much, sir.
Appreciate you. I loved it.
Okay. Thank you, sir. Have a, have a great evening. Appreciate it.
