The Call of God on Your Life with Jarred Turner

**Title:** The Call of God on Your Life with Campus Pastor Jarred Turner

**Podcast Summary:**

Today’s episode featured Rev. Jared Turner, campus pastor at Indiana Bible College (IBC), who shared invaluable insights on discerning the call of God for young ministers. With his extensive experience mentoring youth and his deep spiritual background, Rev. Turner provided a comprehensive guide for those feeling the pull towards ministry.

**Key Insights:**

1. **Understanding the Call:**
   - Rev. Turner emphasized that every Christian has a role in God’s kingdom, not just to attend church but to actively engage in God's work. However, there's a distinct calling for those meant to lead congregations and preach the word of God. This calling, akin to the biblical prophets, is characterized by a direct, undeniable pull to preach and teach God's word.

2. **The Primacy of Preaching:**
   - Preaching is central to the ministry, differentiating it from other forms of Christian service. Those called to preach will feel a compulsion to share God's word, different from simply teaching Bible studies or participating in music ministries. This compulsion is a hallmark of those destined for pastoral roles or other positions within the fivefold ministry.

3. **Dealing with Ambition:**
   - Turner warned against pursuing ministry out of ambition for recognition or platform. True calling should not be confused with a desire for fame or attention. The motivation to serve should stem from a divine directive rather than personal gain, ensuring the purity and authenticity of one’s ministerial intentions.

4. **Practical Steps Post-Calling:**
   - For those who have affirmed their calling, Rev. Turner advised keeping the matter confidential, initially only sharing with one’s pastor or close, spiritually mature family members to avoid premature exposure and to maintain humility. He also emphasized the importance of immersing oneself in scripture, not for sermon preparation but for personal growth and alignment with God’s word.

5. **Service and Preparation:**
   - Being called to ministry involves readiness to serve in any capacity within the church, demonstrating a servant’s heart irrespective of the task’s glamour or visibility. Turner's personal anecdotes highlighted that those truly called will find fulfillment and confirmation in serving, which often opens further doors in ministry.

**Conclusion:**

Rev. Jared Turner’s discussion provides a clear pathway for young ministers trying to discern or confirm their call to ministry. His emphasis on the seriousness of this calling, coupled with practical advice for nurturing and confirming one's divine purpose, offers a valuable roadmap for spiritual development and service.

Transcript

  Today we're talking about discerning the call of God on your life with Rev. Jared Turner, who is the campus pastor at IBC. If you've been living under a rock and don't know what IBC is, it is the Indiana Bible College, Well known, well established, everyone across the world involved with music or ministry is, should be aware of IBC.

He has served as youth pastor for six and a half years before that. But more importantly, in my opinion, he was mentored by the great Bishop Paul Mooney. Every day, Jared  takes time to help young ministers discern the call of God in their life. He is the perfect person to help us with this topic today. 

Before we get going, don't forget to Take a moment to click, follow, like, or subscribe so that the next time you want to listen to our podcast, it'll be easier for you to find.  All right. Now, Jared, I want to thank you first and foremost for coming. I call him Jared, not out of disrespect, but because he and I are really close, really good friends.

Yes. When he takes time to come out of Indiana back to Whitehall because he had the fortune of marrying a Whitehall girl. Yes, I did. He takes the time to look me up. So we are friends.  And I'm proud to say when I took the pastorate in DeWitt, the first person I had come preach for me  was Jared Turner. So we ought to,  I want you to know, as I look, as you picked the topic, I gave you, you know, the option to pick the topic that you wanted to talk about and you picked it and I looked over your notes. 

I had to use a lot of my notes that I've been saving up for this podcast.  Well, what that mean means is we both know that this is an important conversation for young ministers and I'm here to talk about it. So with that, I'm going to let you start us off. Where do you want to go?  

Sure. Well, I mean, I think the first question to address is when we say ministry and the call of God, what are we talking about?

And how do we distinguish that calling from the calling to be a Christian? Because every person that is baptized in Jesus name filled with the Holy Ghost has a purpose in the kingdom of God. And they're not just to sit on a pew and just enjoy the blessings of God. They are to put their hands to work.

Amen. In the kingdom of God, but that being said, we know that there is a distinction between those who are called into the ministry room to be under shepherds to preach the word. I think if you see in the old testament, it's that call to be a prophet. There were priests, and you were born into that. It was a kind of a caste system, and there were shepherds, and there were carpenters, and there were kings, and there were politicians, but God would do something unique with certain people, and they could be priests before, or they could be carpenters, or like, you know, I'm thinking of Amos was a shepherd, uh, Ezekiel was a priest, Isaiah perhaps was a royal attendant, a politician, a statesman.

And, but it was the call of God that united those men. And that's kind of what I'm, I still think God operates in that way. And it's that, how do you know that God is calling you to preach? And I do, and I do emphasize the power of God.  And I emphasize it at IBC, because, because we have such a strong worship studies department, a lot of those students don't necessarily have a call to preach on their life.

And I'm not, I don't, I don't say they don't have a calling to music ministry, because I believe that's a calling. But there's something unique and special about those that have a call to preach on their life. And I have watched students that come to IBC because they're attracted to our music program, but then God begins to get a hold of them and something begins to develop.

And, and they came for the music and, and God uses them. They have great talent in that, but then something else begins to happen. And, and they begin to feel that tug,  preach God's word, to declare God's word. And this is unique. It's different than teaching Bible studies.  I believe preachers should teach Bible studies, but I believe Christians should teach Bible studies. 

And, and, and it's different than just, I like the Bible. I think Christians should like the Bible. I mean, my heritage, I come from non preachers, my grandparents, my parents, not preachers. They're people of the word. They love the word of God. But they're not preachers. So I think it's not that you just love the Bible or you like Bible things.

It's, it's, it's the direct, you have heard from God and there's something in your spirit that says, I have been called to declare God's word. Right. To, to preach God's word. And that's who typically fivefold ministry, Well, that's typically who fills the fivefold ministry, people who have a call to preach on their life.

And I would even kind of go out and say, only preachers fill the fivefold ministry.  I got no, that, that, that is that distinct call. And it's, it's the same in the old Testament is that call of a prophet where men didn't qualify you. God qualified you. God qualified you. I mean,  I mean, Amos is probably one of my favorite prophets for that reason, because they say, don't prophesy in the King's court.

You know where you are. Right. Don't you? And he said, and they said, you're a stranger and you're from, you're from the South. You're from Judah and we're in Israel and you're in Israel's court and you're in the King's court. Don't prophesy. And he said, look, I was just a shepherd till the Lord called me. 

I'm not here because I'm smart or. Because I'm against you, or because you're a different people than me, I'm here because God called me. And so I'm going to say what God says, and I can't listen to you. I've got to, I've got to obey this voice from God. And so,  and if you, if you endeavor, kind of this was, My second point that if you endeavor to step into the ministry because of some other motive other than I've been called  and I can't get away from it, you're setting yourself up for a lifetime of disaster and you'll hurt a lot of people in the process if it's an ambition for a microphone  and not a direct call of God on your life.

Cause we're not public intellectuals.  We're not professors so 

much. Got ahead of yourself. You missed a part of your notes that you sent me earlier and I'm going to play bad holes and I, because I was, well, sure.  You said the primacy  of preaching.  Now maybe I, maybe my heart went a different way, but when I think of primacy, I think of the basics.

So if something is primacy, I think of primitive.  

Sure. I mean, I, I was, I was thinking more along the lines of like the, it's, it's the center. Cool. It's the prime thing. Oh, 

you thinking the prime thing. See, I was thinking of  God chose the foolishness of preaching. You know, we 

try so hard to be 

impressive and we forget we 

are used and annoying.

Oh yeah, that's a part of it, but I was focusing on the part that says God chose.  Okay.  I think if you try, if you preach, you know preaching is foolish. Right. And, and, and what really helped me is I go back to, you know, being a youth pastor and standing up trying and picking up my bus kids and dragging them to church and then standing up there and preaching at them and thinking, shouldn't I be doing something else?

Yeah.  You know? I mean, I got them here. Shouldn't I be doing something else? I mean, they don't even hardly know how to get dressed. You know, I had to get them dressed and they're 13, you know, and should I really be opening up this Bible and turn to Ezekiel 37 preaching about the dry bones, you know, should I really Do that?

Is that what I need? Do I need to read this old book to them? Exactly. And that, that reminds me that it's foolishness. And, but, but in my flesh, I could get off.  And start, you know, try to do my own thing, but then I got to go back to that verse and say, but God chose it. That's right. And so that's, that's, that's why I put that there is because you're, the call, what, what I'm specifically talking about is the call to preach.

Okay. And, and, and that's what I think you have to discern. I, I think God would hide. From you most times, especially when you're young, like the students I'm dealing with, I think God most of the time hides from them whether or not they're going to be an evangelist, whether or not they're going to be a missionary, whether or not they're going to be a pastor,  you know, whether or not they're going to youth pastor for a season or assistant pastor, like, and I, and I've had students or friends that have been students that have done multiple things.

Right. You know what I mean? I've got friends on the mission field right now, they youth pastored for a while and then they met, they were, they'd never pastored.  Except in the context of the mission field, but they are pastors of a church right now But we would look at them in the united states and say missionaries But there are people in in brazil look at them and say pastor, right?

But they've been used that so like I don't I the the the key that they have to remember and that they do remember They're called  that they're called to to preach and then god works out the details That's that's kind of what I meant by that It's not your call to serve, it's not your call to teach Bible studies or win the lost.

That's a Christian call.  Exactly. That's a healthy Christian. Should be winning souls. And preachers absolutely should win souls. 

I want to clarify, for the listener's sake, something that you had started off with. And just in case I've got folks that are  near and dear to my heart and have been listening to all the podcasts. 

This is similar to, to the left, to the podcast I had with Bishop DeRay Aldridge, but it's not the same thing. In that podcast, Jerry, we talked about knowing your place,  but that had a different purpose. That was about knowing that was about pastors should be pastors and evangelists to be evangelists and don't  try to be something you're not.

Sure. Yeah. So I don't 

want to think I'm talking about the same thing with someone else. I'm not. It's something different. Bye.  When you said anyone who is Holy Ghost filled, baptized, Jesus' name should, or they have a purpose  that almost in my brain and I'm, I just, I'm speaking to the listener here in my brain, that almost gives an excuse to those who have not been yet baptized and not in the spirit, not yet baptized in the want to not do anything as if they're off the hook. 

You already have a purpose, you just haven't answered it yet.  Sure. It's not the Well, I'd 

Yeah, sure. I knew what you meant.  Well, it just, it just, I, I think if you're not baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost Used, right. Yeah, that's, that's where your primary focus should be. Getting your heart right work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

I know what you mean. Yeah I'm not gonna 

put you on the platform. You haven't done those things. Yeah. Well, sure you're talking about a platform, but I'm just clarifying 

Well, I would say anything I would I would just I would as a pastor with Young people, you know I would have young people that would come in and they would want to be used in the church and I would want them To be used but I would want them to be saved And sometimes they can use the service to the church as a crutch for why they don't need to get better.

Yeah,  

well, here we can disagree because I'll let them open my doors, you know, I'll let them clean the bathroom, you know, so that Well, sure. 

And, and, you know, and I would, I think I would too. However, it, it's, you know, it, we are more than just a community. Yes, we are. On earth. We are a heavenly community. And We don't need to cheapen that.

You're right. Yeah, well that's, I would just, I would, not, not out of punishment, but out of concern that they would, that that's, that's got to be their focus, every service, and I've just watched people hide in, in the usher room. Yeah, I went to a big church, so we had a lot of ministries. We had security ministries.

You know what I mean? And I've seen people hide and, and not be, and the pastor has to work that out, you know, without discouraging people. 

Oh, I forgot about this part of our conversations. He is from a large church and I'm from a very 

small church.  Yes.  Yes. We are. So they're a different context there.  

I cannot imagine those things  and this is one of my favorite things to talk to him about because he shows me things like, like, wow, I never thought about that. 

All right. Well, I did not mean to interrupt you too much. Sure. That's all right.  And direct the conversation. And one last thing. Um,  I'm looking at my note and I put it here and I know it's, you're my guest and I don't want to take too much, but  being called to the ministry, we all know the word means serve.

But I just wanted to add that Jesus was called teacher because he taught  you're judged by your fruit.  So if you want to be a servant,  you got to serve.  If you want to, you know, if you want to be a good preacher, show me fruits of it. If you want to be a good servant, show me fruits of it. You want to, 

yeah, 

absolutely.

You want to be a good leader? Show me fruits of it. Jesus was called master and rabbi because he showed fruits of it.  You got to show fruits of it. Sure.  Now, to your second point that I interrupted you, you said, how do you distinguish between a calling and human ambition? 

Carry on, sir.  Well, I mean, I, that's, that's the question that I think everybody that tries to help young people and I'm, I'm specifically talking to young people because I know that's when we were in youth ministry together, that was your heart.

To start to help young people, young ministers, and, and that's where I work every day is with, you know, young people. Now they've already done a little bit of this work with their pastor before they come to IBC, but some have done less than you think. They just kind of come to IBC on a whim and then God really starts to get a hold of them.

So I have to help them distinguish sometimes their motives.  And, and if you, and this is, this is what, you know, the wise man said, Guard your heart, from out of it come the issues of life. And that can  confuse us a little bit. It doesn't mean like the problems of life. It means the source of life. It's where water issues forth.

So it's the source of life comes from your heart. So why you're doing what you're doing. And so you have to. And, and because the ministry is primarily about preaching, as far as that's where the call is, it's, or teaching up in front of people. That's what God has chosen as the primary way that he ministers to the world, is he speaks.

You look at Jesus even, you brought up the fact that Jesus was a teacher. You know, people would follow him. For his miracles and then leave when he started to teach because the words that he taught were so shocking sometimes, but there were others that them that they weren't. They were following him because like Peter said, you have the words of eternal life, so people could do miracles in Jesus's time, maybe not quite like Jesus, but they could work up a miracle, but they couldn't speak like him. 

So even Jesus is ministry. He could have done more miracles, but it just would have driven people further from him. That's why it says he did not many miracles because of unbelief. It means that if he did miracles when there was unbelief, they wouldn't believe anyway. So he wasn't even going to do the miracle so that he didn't drive them further from the truth.

But it was his teaching that was really primarily what he came to do. He was pouring into his disciples, and he was pouring into the multitude that would listen. And so,  you know, that, and I, and I get it, I get it because what I do, I don't,  my time is not always spent preaching, you know, but if, so, you know, say 95 percent of ministry is done out of the pulpit, and I get what that means, like the time invested.

But if you take that 5 percent of preaching away, you're not called by God. Because that's what God has chosen.  It is, is, is preaching. And so, because of that, there's a platform involved, and there's, there's listeners involved. You can't preach without listeners. And so, then you have to make sure that you're not just desiring the platform, or to be a TED Talk giver, or to be a content creator, which is our new buzzword.

In social media generation, just somebody that creates content because I'm not really trying to create content and I've had, I had, I, I privileged to teach the prophets at IBC and that's one of my favorite classes to teach. And, and we, I had this discussion this semester, well, what is preaching?  And we kind of worked through it in the class and came to a decision that preaching has to come first.

It has to be like a live, almost like a live audience thing, not that I can't be ministered to by a past servant,  but I can't listen to preaching tapes and think that I don't need preaching today. Right. That I don't need, and I, and I, I'm thankful for Calvary Tabernacle's live stream and every church that does a live stream that I've watched.

I'm thankful for that, but, but, but I can't just go back to the archives and I can't just log in from home all the time. I think there's something about being present and sitting down and looking at someone who is preaching to you. Right. That's good. And, and I, I think that's what God has chosen and I've watched it happen too many times at IBC chapels where things that I've said from the pulpit, even, even if I'm not giving the sermon, but just closing out service as a pastor standing in the pulpit, I have done more good than hours in my office.

Right. Because God prompted me what to say.  And it just, and so that's what God has chosen,  but so, but because of that, there's a danger in it and just desiring the microphone  and, and especially to, and I have to work with young people that have access to platforms.  Some don't, and they're kind of blessed because they're like, I'm a nobody.

And if God doesn't do it, I'm not open. No doors are opening for me. But others have pastors and dads that are very connected and they can get pulpits easily and they have to check their heart  and say, why do I want this?  And if you want it because you like the way you look on the Instagram reel, just go back and repent.

And check your heart  and say, God, I don't want this unless I'm called because I want your will.  And, and, and if, if you can pray that honestly and say, God, I'll do whatever you want me to do and mean it. If I, if I never preach, but I just teach Sunday school and that's what you want me to do. That's what I'll do.

And then if you, if, if you can't escape it, you're called by God  because, because there will be days when you wish you could just teach Sunday school and work a job and have your weekends free. I promise you that. Absolutely. And if you can't escape it, you know, you're called by God.  And that's how you know, this isn't my ambition. 

And I, there was, I think it was brother, brother Carlton Kuhn that said it. And I, I don't even know where he said it, but I, it was referenced somewhere and I wrote it down. Walk through doors that don't have flashing neon signs over them.  Yeah. And it's, you know, if you, if you just say yes to God, the door won't be great, but you'll know this is, I'm called.

And that's how you keep your ambition in check.  That's good. 

That is, that's good. I don't know. I don't know. It may have been  Carlton Coon when he said it, it rung a bell. I just have the quote here, we know that the first quote, the core of your calling is servitude. We've mentioned that already. So keep that in mind with the quote, but authority is given to us to serve,  not, not to set apart.

Oh, no. You're not given the authority. And when people see the pulpit, they think authority. Oh, I'm some, but you're not given that authority. To be set apart, you're given as a tool to serve somebody. 

So it really, I watched the call of God is a great equalizer.  It's a great equalizer. It humbles those that are exalted.

And I put myself in that category because I had a lot of, I had some connections and I had talent and I had people pour into me. And I was preaching from a young age and I had opportunities, but God had to humble me. But I've also seen the call of God elevate. A young lady preached chapel today. And the reason she preached chapel, I don't think we would have ever asked her.

We didn't know that she was a preacher. But she came into my office and slid a sermon across my desk and said, Brother Turner, I just want you to read this. I said, Well, why do you want me to read it? She said, I don't know. I just want you to read it. She had no ambition behind that. She just wanted to get my thoughts on it.

It was very vulnerable. And when I was reading, I could feel the anointing on that sermon.  I could feel it. And I could tell that God had been doing something in her life, secretly, where really nobody had known.  And what she didn't know is that our, we have two speakers on Thursdays, and our first speaker had canceled on us yesterday, the day before.

And so, our student body president who picks the student speakers was scrambling to find somebody that could preach last minute.  And I just knew it was right. And I said, would you be willing to share this in chapel?  And she said, I think that's the only place I would ever want to preach it.  And she said, I'll be really nervous, but I'll do it. 

And when I say she preached a flawless message, I'm not really exaggerating. I You couldn't tell she was nervous. The anointing was on her life. And all I could think is God elevates.  And so I don't think anybody in that school would have thought of her as a preacher.  And then there she was, I mean, and not every, you don't, there's no guarantee you come to IBC, there's no guarantee in four years you'll preach chapel.

It's, it's, it's a privilege, it's not a right. Because we only have certain slots, and we have a lot of students, and we have a lot of good students.  And, and our student body officers try to be very sensitive to the Lord, and they've always picked incredible students to preach with my approval. But this one wasn't even on their radar, or quite frankly, online.

As a preacher  and God elevated her because she had been doing the work  in secret. And she's the only one in her family left serving the Lord. She said that today,  because they've all backslid, but her  and God elevated her.  Well, don't that just make you smile?  

Good job, my friend, uh, you putting her to use and using wisdom there being used as well.

Good job. You missed the point of my question, but that's all right. It probably didn't need to be asked anyway. You and I will talk to him about it later. Okay. Okay. Your answer was beautiful and elegant, and that's what my lead  as needed. I was Okay. Okay.  Letting my flesh come in.  All right. Uh, number three on your list, by the way, I'm reading his notes that he gave me.

So in case, in case you're wondering that he is leading the conversation, I'm just the mouthpiece for it. You, if your question says, once you have accepted the calling, what comes 

next? Okay. And this is once you, once you worked it out and you've discerned it. And you'll know, and if you try to get away from it, God won't let you, and that's how you know I'm caught. 

Now, and then I have four things. Oh, because I like a list. I do, I like lists, I think they're, I loved it when preachers would have lists. And it's because it helped me to write my notes down, but it just helps get my thoughts in order. The first thing I would say is tell no one  and I have some caveats outside of your pastor And I think your pastor needs to know and your closest family, but even them with caution especially as a young person because people don't Understand the call of God unless they are also called  so your pastor will understand it The best  because he has a calling  your parents may or may not understand even if they're Christian parents and  You have to let  God  Exalt you and not exalt you but expose that fact that you are called and that will also protect you  From that ambition because if it's the flesh you will promote yourself and God will never promote you  But if it's a true calling you'll say nothing and God will just begin to work in your life.

Yep  You know, I I  felt the called honestly when I was 12 years old And I didn't tell anybody, and I don't know why I didn't, I guess just because it was such, it was a weird thing to say at 12, and it just, and it just wasn't, but it was, it was just in my heart, but things started happening that where God started to confirm it openly, and one of the most memorable moments was when I was 12, we were at the church for something, a prayer meeting or something, and Brother Mooney comes walking up the aisle,  And, you know, like I said, big church, you don't know which aisle he's going to come up.

You don't run into him at every service like you do at a small church. You could go weeks and not, you know, talk to him, especially as a kid. But he comes walking up the aisle and it's pretty tight right there. So he has to walk right past me and he just stops and puts his hand on my shoulders and looks right in the, me in the eye and says, God's going to use you, I can see it in your eyes. 

And I turn around and my mom and some of her friends are in tears.  Because the anointing in that moment, see, I, God, God got to tell my mom, got me. Right. You know what I mean? Through the voice of my pastor. And I hadn't even had a conversation with him. I was 12. Who would believe me? Right.  You know what I mean?

But things like that started happening. I, I went to a Christian school, I went to our church school, and the principal's wife asked me to do a little testimony in chapel. And one of my teachers later in front of my parents said, Jared did so good in chapel today, he might just be a preacher.  You know, so there it was.

So then it's, it's, it's, you know, I didn't tell him.  God started to give them hints. And then it was, you know, in an altar when I was 16, Really accepting the call of God and I felt a hand on my back and I knew it was my dad praying for me and it was like they never once resisted it because they knew it was from God.

They knew it wasn't just me wanting to go to Bible school to avoid getting a real job. Or, you know, have 24 hour church camp or whatever that sometimes people say about Bible College. They knew it wasn't that.  They knew that God had called me because they didn't hear it from me.  They heard it from others.

They heard it from God himself,  in some ways. God began to expose that calling. We still got it. If you're really called, He will. 

We still got our fingers crossed that you're going to 

be a preacher one day. Yeah, one day. Maybe I'll get there.  Maybe I'll get there.  Didn't mean to interrupt you, my friend. Go ahead.

No, that's, that's, that's really, that's, so that, that's your first step is just, and, and, and that helps you in so many ways because, and, you know, and, and people, when I was playing basketball for the Christian school, people started calling me preacher man. Well, not because I preached at him, but because Just by my life, it became evident that I loved the Lord, and I took church seriously, and I took reading the Bible seriously, and I didn't preach at him, but I just wasn't a part of some things they were a part of, and you know, people began to,  you know, my coach called me reverend,  you know, as kind of a joke, but as kind of a sense of honor, he knew he could trust me, you know, those kind of things, and so it was like,  People just around me started saying, yeah, you can do this.

You can do this. You can do this. And you know, my youth pastors, I had two of them growing up and they really were influential in my life and. They would have me preach sermonettes and things like, and, and I didn't seek it out. I didn't say, Hey, Hey, you know, Brother Anderson, Hey, Brother Chandler, I want to preach a sermonette.

They recognize something in me and asked me, would you do this? You know what? And so let, let that,  you know, kind of unfold and that'll protect you. And then the second one, point number two is keep your Bible close.  What, what do we preach? We preach the word of God. That's all we preach. I'm not saying you can't use illustrations.

I'm not saying you can't reference other things. You have to live in the Bible. Right. And you, you, you have to read to know God and to enjoy his word. One, that's another reason why you'll know you're called.  Now I think every Christian should love the word, but a preacher certainly should love the word.

Exactly. And, and not just to get a sermon, you're not reading it to get a sermon, not reading it to see the secret messages of scripture. The plain messages of scripture are hard enough to understand. And there's so many of the, I mean, I'm seeing every time I read the Bible, I'm, God is dealing with me about things that are plainly in the text.

Mm hmm. That I just either forgot were there. Or didn't know were there. Or skipped over them. Or they were three words that transformed my life. And I take them and I apply them to my life. And then usually they find their way into a sermon. But you've got to love the word.  You've got to keep that Bible close.

And obviously prayer, yes. But that's, that's a Christian duty.  But that, but that, keep that Bible close and let it speak to you.  Because that's what you're going to preach. And, and you put it in your heart. And then God can bring it out when you need it. I mean, there are times I'm in the pulpit at Indiana Bible College, which, you know, chapels are kind of like my church service.

That's, that's where my congregation is. That's when I get to do a lot of my pastoring, and God will just bring verses to my mind. I'm not talking about sermon preparation, but just in the pulpit. Sure. Closing up service, you know, transitioning, we'll have a breakout service, and then I gotta, you know, guide us through it.

And God will just bring things to my memory that have been poured into my spirit through his word.  And so keep, keep us in, in to read, to enjoy it. And you'll, you'll, I promise you, you'll be a better preacher if you do it that way. Absolutely. You know. And that's what I can give you a compliment to because, because I love to hear you preach because of the way you approach scripture and, and I can tell that it's from a love from scripture.

I remember you preach the youth rally out of Leviticus. Now, now that if you're preaching the youth rally out of Leviticus, You've got to love for the word of God, because no preacher book tells you to do that. You're not going to preach it. com and getting that sermon, youth sermons. And somebody says Leviticus, but you, you talked about being an outcast. 

You talked about being an outcast and that, that God sees the outcasts because Leviticus had all these rules that cast them out of the camp and that ministered to those students and they flooded the altar. And it was what God needed you to say.  Appreciate that as well. It was it, and it was in, it was in, and I've never forgot that, is that's what true preaching is.

That's letting the word saturate in your spirit and, and even applying it in a, in a way that, you know, the commentaries might not even tell you to apply it, but God through his word and through his spirit, Begins to bring something to light. And you'll be a better preacher that way than reading 16 books on homiletics. 

And I believe in homiletics. We teach it at IBC. I believe it. You gotta have some, some polish on you,  but, but you'll be better if you just saturate in the word.  I agree. Appreciate 

your compliment. That means a lot coming from you.  What's your number three?  

Work on weaknesses. You have no right to be someone in the pulpit with faults and failures because you have the power of the spirit, the power of the cross, the power of repentance on your side.

And if you have a weakness that is unaddressed, it will be magnified in your ministry and it will destroy your ministry. So I don't.  I, I understand, like, I just got to say it because pornography is rampant in our country. 99 percent of young men and increasing number of young women. And that is a problem that you have to get under control.

You have to stop today.  You can, you cannot, now God will still anoint you, perhaps. And I've seen young people and they've come and confessed to me and they ride that roller coaster, you know, they're clean for a while. And then they preach a good sermon and then they have a crash in the flesh. You gotta work on that.

That, that, that might work when you're young and you get an opportunity to preach a little sermon in it. And you might stay clean for a while,  but, but that will come to destroy your life. If you don't work on it, if  you're an undisciplined person, work on it, work on it. You have the help of the spirit. You have the help of the Holy Ghost.

Work on it. Don't make an excuse for weakness.  I preached a sermon at, at IBC that really felt like God gave me and it really helped a lot of students. They told me later is that holiness is possible. Righteousness is possible. There's sometimes we think, oh, it's not possible. It is. It's not possible. It's not.

It's absolutely possible.  It's, it's absolutely possible. You don't, you know, and, and I told him this, Brother Mooney shocked me in an IBC class one day, walked in and said, you know, it's been months since I've sinned.  And it was like, it kind of sounded arrogant, you know, to a young person. You're like, but then I, but then I begin to think about it.

I was like, well, can't we have victory over sin?  You know, can't, you know,  we can overemphasize grace and forget what the point of grace is. The point of grace is to get you out of it, not to leave you in it. And so it was, that liberated me.  That wasn't, it wasn't like a beat down kind of statement. It was a liberty, it's possible. 

Which, and I appreciate outta Romans where Paul says that sin takes occasion by the law.  That satan uses the law to say, oh, that's not possible. What are you talking about? Oh be a virgin when you get married not possible  And then I preach drinks if people have messed up But if but if you haven't messed up don't think you have to  Don't think you have to sell your wild oats in order to have a ministry Don't think you have to have a testimony of I did drugs and I smoked out, you know, I smoked weed I drank alcohol  That's the only way I can have a ministry because i've got this great testimony No, if you're blessed to be raised in church, you know what you can live your whole life with never tasting that stuff That's good You, you can do it because the, the power of the spirit.

And then what, if you've messed up, once you get, throw it on the altar of repentance, you don't have to go back to  it. It's possible. It is. And so work on your weaknesses. Don't make excuses for them. Don't say, Oh, that's just the. I'm just an addictive. I have addictive personality. No, you don't.  No, you don't.

That's a lie. That's a lie. You just, you just need to change your desires. Get a love for his word. Get a love for people. Get a love for the, for the things of God. And that'll become, oh, I just, I just, you know, that'll become your entertainment.  It is just, it, you live it. The, the best preachers that I know live it. 

They're not just, they're not just preachers on Sunday and then, and then, you know, veg it out on Netflix on Monday.  They live it.  The people that I work with at IBC, they live it.  That's what we talk about. We talk about the Bible. You know, we talk about ministry. We talk about the things of God. Going to work doesn't feel like work to us.

Because this is what we do.  You know, that's what we do. It's who we are. And that's the best way to be. And so work on those weaknesses when you're young. You don't have to be perfect right away because you haven't stepped into your ministry yet.  But work on those weaknesses so they don't haunt you later. 

That's awesome. I'm holding my thoughts so I can come and summarize later, but you're absolutely right.  Give me 

number four. And then the last one is serve wherever you can. I mean, do anything. I think if you have a call of God on your life, you need to be the first person to volunteer at your church for anything.

And if you're from a small church, this is easy, but for me, big church, not so easy.  But I was, I mean, I was willing to do anything. And so, this'll sound odd,  from a big church, my job that I got at the church, that I could do as a young, as a young person and young adult. Is we had a bookstore, we had a small store in our church.

It's kind of, it's turned into a coffee shop now because that's kind of the new thing. But then it was, we sold books, we sold mostly candy, snacks, drinks, you know, for people to eat before service, after service. And we sold all our preaching tapes and our IBC CDs and that store needed a stalker and it was a volunteer job.

And that became my job. And when I had free time in between classes, I would go up. I would unload the car from when they picked it all up at Sam's and I would stock the candy. And that was a it was a ministry of our church because we brought in so much money that helped the church operate even it was it was a month and and it was it's kind of an odd thing But it was what I could do  and they asked me to do it and I said yes And I did it with now sometimes I  You know didn't really want to do it But most of the time I wanted to do it because I wanted to be close to the work of god And I would go up there and I would look at those people that worked in the office and see my youth pastor In the office and think and i'd be going to a sec I did go to secular college before I went to ibc and i'd be you know thinking  If I could just one day work at a church work where just in my life would be surrounded That's what I desire.

And so I would I would relish those moments of just being at the church working  And, and so whatever you're  asked to do, nothing is beneath you,  nothing is beneath you. And that's, this is where, this is where you can really check your heart and make sure that you're not going back to my ambition thing.

If your ambition is just for the pulpit, well, then you'll think certain ministries are beneath you. But if you're the preacher, no ministries beneath you,  none, none, because, because who should love the church more? Exactly.  Who should pick up trash? Who should be the first to pick up trash? Who should be the first to mow the lawn?

Those that have a call of God on their life.  Who should take pride in the building more than somebody that has a call of God on their life? Who should And then other opportunities came. Our youth group started a welcome committee that was like, your job is to get here early to youth service and make sure every visitor has a friend.

Well, I jumped on that, because who else should have a burden for lost souls than somebody that's got a call on their life? I, I, I signed up for that quick, because I'm not, I don't have any musical ability, um, and so I, I, I'm not naturally good at it, so therefore, I flaked out of every lessons I tried to start,  and so I just, and I'm not a singer, and even my own mother said she'd never encouraged me to sing.

You know it's bad. When your mom didn't like your singing. So I mean, I don't have any of that, so I could not be on the praise team. I could not be a drummer. You know, so that was out to me. But what I could do, I did.  And I, and I think that's, that's what you need to do. And, and God sees you. Whether or not your pastor even sees you.

I'm not sure brother, but he knew I had that job.  You know what I mean? I mean, this, you know, he didn't, he doesn't have time to worry about who's stalking the bookstore. Right. Right? It was the bookstore manager that worked for the church that knew I was doing it and she's not even a preacher.  But she just asked me and I said, yes. 

And, and God saw,  you know, and, and other things too. I mean, when I was youth pastor, I had to clean the church. I was also the church janitor,  you know, and nothing's beneath you in the church. Who else, who else should want the church to look good than somebody that preaches in the pulpit? Right.  Right.  You know, it's like, there were, I would watch people at our church in Whitehall, who work 40, 50, 60 hours a week, come and clean the baptistry  on their free time.

So why shouldn't I, who stands in the pulpit, clean the toilets? They're cleaning the baptistry, watering the plants.  Nothing's beneath me. Right. And I, and I should do it to the best of my ability because I'm called by God and because this is my life.  That's good.  You're absolutely right. So you do those four things, you're well on your way and God will elevate you.

You don't have to worry about knowing the right people, getting your, creating a business card, creating a brand on Instagram. You know, that's, we're all into branding. You know, you don't, you don't have to do that. You don't have to create your brand. You do those things and God will elevate you.  

You're absolutely right.

I'm debating  now, but I,  yeah, I'm going to go ahead and come behind you a little bit and  I probably should have stopped you, but I didn't want to stop you. I wanted you to go through and.  You were doing so well, I was enjoying it, but I was, that's probably not a good host.  I have a resident  critic, I'm not going to name their name, but they know who they are.

They, they are very good at pointing out everything I've done wrong, and I'm sure they're going to let me know  that I should have stopped you and added my thoughts and not come from behind. Okay. Okay.  So, uh, to that critic. I know,  forgive me, this will have only been my sixth podcast  I'm 

learning.  

But that list of four was to answer your point, once you have accepted the calling, what comes next? 

And I wanted to say, be faithful.  

Absolutely.  Absolutely.  

David was faithful in serving sheep.  Absolutely. I can't tell you how many times people want to work, but they don't want to show up 

for the living.  And you know, and, and I bet faithfulness is, is a fabulous principle because I think that's where, if this is not the topic of this podcast, but if you were talking to more established ministers on balance. 

I've kind of learned to get rid of that word balance because I'm not smart enough to balance. I've got two little girls that need me. I've got a wife. I've got 250 students that need me. I'm not smart enough to balance that. I'm not smart enough to balance my finances, my home. You know, I got a leak at my house right now.

My house is tore apart. I'm, I'm not smart enough to fix all that. What I'm called to be faithful, faithful and faithfulness will help me be the best father, be the best.  Pastor, I also have classes to teach, be the best teacher, I've got administrative duties, be the best administrator,  you know, I've got, there's practical things to be in the campus pastor.

I got to make sure there's enough beds. I got to make sure, you know, I got responsibilities on the building, you know, and taking complaints from parents and all that stuff. So I got administrative duties to do faithfulness and you're right. Even before you had the, if you're not faithful before you had the position, how can God trust you to be faithful when you have a family?

I'm busier now than I've ever been. God's got to, you know, you know what it's like stepping into that role as pastor, busier than you've ever been, faithfulness.  

And I thought I worked hard before I was pastor. 

It's,  it's faithfulness. Yeah. 

I don't remember his name at the moment and that's a shame because he is well known, but he was at men's conference last year talking about balance and he said, we don't balance, we're balancing. 

And he related it to the tight rope.  Sometimes you got to lean left  and sometimes you got to lean right. Right. Right.  You know, but no one is ever balanced. We're balanced. You're, you're just being faithful.  So I was going to your story of balance, but yeah, so be faith. That's what's next. Be faithful, show up  and keep showing up and be faithful.

Not just to attend this, but be faithful to your word. Be faithful to everything that we've mentioned.  Be faithful to your lifestyle. As far as the list,  that's a big one. Tell no one outside of your pastor and closest family and be cautious with that. Like you said, because your family, even if they do accept it, they may  fluff your head. 

Oh, sure. Want to be a preacher. Sure.  But you, you need to be careful what your motives are. Can you handle their answers? Sometimes we don't want their answer. We want their validation.  Sure. We want their pat on the back. And sometimes we can't handle their doubt. They don't, sure. They don't see God's work.

They see the brat in the neighborhood. They see the kid that broke their window. They see whatever your rap sheet may be. You may have a drug problem, you know, you may have had a drug problem, you may come from a broken home,  and that's what they see, so you may not,  yeah, so go to your family, go to your pastor,  my pastor tries to talk you out of it,  because if he can't, if he can't, you're not called, you're not called, so, yeah,  keep your Bible close, I love that word enjoy, I'm glad you hit it, because I, I highlighted that huge word enjoy, you gotta enjoy it. 

If it's burden to read your Bible, you're missing something.  I love other versions of the Bible only because I love his word. I cannot stand the cop out, the King James version's too hard to understand. Then learn how to pray for understanding. Learn how to communicate. God, what does this mean? Yeah, absolutely.

Learn how to study it. Pick up a Absolutely. Pick up a lexicon. 

Absolutely. I mean, I always say the Bible's hard to understand.  And because God is a complicated being, he's all that there is. He is truth.  I mean, you know, 

Use it as an example to get deeper. Oh, I got to figure this out. Yeah.  So absolutely. No, you're keep your Bible.

And there's a difference between reading and studying.  We think just because we read Genesis one through really  we've studied the Bible and that's not the case.  I've read many books and I can't tell you a word in them. Yeah.  Because I didn't study it.  

Well, my, my youth pastor helped me with that. He said, I'd rather you read three verses and understand them than read three chapters just to check the box.

And your eyes have just skimmed over the words.  I do believe 

there's a benefit to just reading it. It should keep 

absolutely bread 

program. Absolutely. Something you're at there for that, but it is not studying. That's my point.  A tip pastor of Gulf shores, a friend of mine is how it was right.  He gave me an idea how to study the Bible, and  it's a long term plan,  and it's really neat. 

Rather than do the three verses at a time, which is what T. F. Tinney taught, by the way. T. F. Tinney taught, when he was learning the Bible, he said he would not go to bed until he mastered three verses.  Completely mastered. You know, obviously, that took him years.  Sure. What Johnson Arnold does, and he was taught by someone, he reads the Bible through, but as he comes across something that he's curious about.

He writes that question down. He does not hunt that question. He does not answer it. He writes it down. The question down.  Sure. And then when he comes, when he finishes the Bible, he comes back to it.  Now he's going to answer his questions as he's coming through again. So you're reading and studying at the same time, and I thought that was  a fun way.

Sure. So that's just a suggestion. You know, just another, and somebody once said,  forgive me for not being able to give the source, but I liked it.  Teaching out of context is putting words in the mouth of God. Sure. So you have to, you have to know. We, 

we are bound by that word  and we'll be judged and we'll be judged by it.

That's why you don't want to enter this thing out of ambition. That's right. Because not only will you be accountable for your Christian life, you will be accountable for your life in front of people and what you said  and that, that you will be every word  that comes out of your mouth. You will be judged, and you will be also be judged for what you don't say.

So if you're in a put, and God gives you something to say, and you don't say it because it's too controversial, God will judge you for that as well.  Absolutely, 

but you got to know that word and  keep knowing it. Now when you said work on weaknesses,  my carnal mind didn't even think about our fleshly weaknesses.

I was thinking,  When I was thinking of working on weaknesses, I was thinking on our preaching weaknesses. Oh yeah. 

And I, but I think your character shines through and God will take care of the preaching weaknesses.  But 

some of us don't want to work. We're too lazy to work on that too.  You know? Well, 

and I, I just, I don't know, I, I just, I see a lot of young preachers  and, and  if you listen to preaching  and when you get opportunities to preach bad sermons, you'll want to preach better ones.

Just naturally and you will become a better preacher. I think just naturally but your integrity  is what will shine through in the pulpit It's it's that character formation that get when you  are anointed by God because you live a Christian life faithful and consistent that will shine through in the pulpit and People will forgive you of your slight  I don't have whatever. 

And then the more you, the more you preach, the, the more, the more polish you'll get. And there's really no, there's no substitute for preaching to get better at preaching.  

If and that leads me to where I was going, and this, this works on both on your original point of working on your flaws and you know, either way, but if you're willing to admit that you have weaknesses.

Oh yeah. Well, that's, that's a, that's a huge weakness if you're not willing to admit you have any. That's, that, that, that's a huge one. 

You know, uh, uh, Martin Ballesteros, whatever, he just recently went on a rant about  crutches, word fillers,  people who have to say hello, amen, hallelujah. Yeah. Excessively,  you know, don't do that.

You know, it, it. Now, you're right, primarily as your character, but,  

and I, I, and I understand that, I, I, I think a lot of times that speaks those hellos and amen, that, that's, that's like a different style of you've learned to, you have to have a response from a crowd,  and, but if you read the Bible. The crowd response doesn't matter.

Exactly. Cause sometimes you are called to preach when nobody wants to listen. And so then it's like that, you know, y'all aren't going to preach with me tonight and all that kind of stuff that kind of dives out.  I'm going to say this wrong to say, I, I'm not coming against people that say that, you know, that's fine to say in certain settings,  you know, you have to just know that God has given you a word.

I preached to a HYC in, in Minnesota recently. And that first night, you know, They didn't know me very well, and then in Minnesota, it's just, the culture's a little more reserved. I'm talking about crickets.  It's mostly young people, not a lot of the adults come to this culture, they don't come to H. Y. C.

like they do in Arkansas. So it's just mostly the young people, and it's just like crickets. But I knew I had a word from the Lord, and I just had to preach it.  You know, and sure enough, I had some confirmation afterwards that I was preaching exactly what needed to be said.  You know, and so sometimes it can just be like a worldview thing, Like, I've got a word from God.

And so, and that was, that was kind of what was example to me. Sure. To, is that kind of just straightforward? Give the word of God. If the response is there, write it. Yes. Shout, holler. I mean, walk the pews, you know, if there, but if the response isn't there, just preach anyway.  Brother 

A. D. Hill, retired at Whitehall UPC, he taught me,  make sure you always get your anointing from God and don't try to get your anointing from the Congress.

Yes. Amen.  Your last point was serve wherever you can, and you said that you didn't do anything that you're asked to do. I wrote a note, I'm going to close on that, but while you said it, I thought of an example and you even referenced it, but I knew of a church  and y'all don't know where, because I've, I've, I've served in the Navy, so I've lived in Virginia and I've lived in Pensacola and worked in Pensacola,  you know, and I've done everything here.

I shouldn't say everything, but I've done a lot of things and I've known friends across the country. So y'all don't know where I'm talking,  but there was a church that had two brothers, both  called to the ministry.  One was given a whole lot more opportunities to the pulpit  than the other.  I would dare say that the other didn't get any opportunity. 

And he was frustrated about it.  What people didn't see behind the scenes was on Saturday,  The preacher brother was mowing the grass,  he was at the church cleaning, they were both invited, the pastor would call both of them. Hey, I need help with this.  Only one 

would, one would answer.  

You have to be willing to do what's asked of  you.

And I,  who knows, but I thought of Joseph and his brothers. Yeah.  All throughout his trials, whether he was in the pit, but then he was, you know, Uh, Potiphar, then he was in the, the, the dungeon, he still served,  regardless of his situation,  regardless of being mistreated, regardless of being, of his disappointments, regardless of how it ever looked, he still served. 

Listener, you have no excuse. To not  work, it  doesn't matter how you feel, how you've been mistreated.  Another word that's been thrown around lately, and I don't mean any disrespect, but it's really being overused is church hurt.  

Yeah, absolutely. 

I know, I know it's real. I know there's a such thing for it, but we're, we're, we're really getting on our pity pods to say, Oh, feelings.

And therefore I'm right. Shut down. 

Well, I, I think the Bible addresses this when, when the ruler of the house rises up against you unjustly, leave not your place and God will take care of it. That's right. So just because somebody wronged you and you were really wronged doesn't mean you have a right to leave the church. 

To leave the body of Christ and get bitter at God. The Bible addresses this and we can't let fads take us away from the Bible. We've got to love his word. He he's already, he's already put the answer in there. That's right.  If your pastor rises up against you and your pastor's wrong, I don't take care of it.

But don't you rise up.  Good, 

good word.  Jared, I've always enjoyed visiting with you. And here's the thing. When Jared and I get together for lunch, it's never just an hour. No. I'm always late getting back to 

work. Yeah, I told my wife this be a 30 minute podcast and, uh,  I'm gonna have to go repent.  

We just get along so well.

We talk and yeah, man. I love you to death. Now. We both have kids now My kids are a lot older. He was a lot later to the game than I I got  My youngest is about is 16. You're you you're Oldest is how old?  Four and a 

half.  Yep. It's a wild time.  A four year old and an 18 or she's 20 months. So four and a one.

And I 

have a one year old granddaughter. So, yeah.  

And we were on the youth committee. We were in the section two youth together.  

So we are  different worlds, but I do know that when you come back to the white hall, I know you got a lot of people tugging at your strings and you've got Nikki's home church, but please never make time to come see us.

We would love to have you. Yes. 

Yes. We'd love to be there.  

Thank you so much, brother. Listeners, if you get a chance, IBC has a Pastors Day?  

Yes. Yes. When is that? That's March 26th, Pastors Day. So we invite all the pastors that are, that currently have students, but also if a pastor is interested just to come and see what it's like.

Now, There's, if, and then we have our preview weekends, which one's coming up in a week, which that was already closed, but we run them February and November. That's for students to come see what IBC is about. But pastor's day is for pastors. They want to come see what IBC is about. They certainly welcome, welcome you to come to that event on March 26th, which is a Tuesday.

Well, there 

you have it. And if you're worried about finances, last I knew his mama worked with the finances, financial aid department. Yeah.  See, Dennis. See. 

There it goes. I got connections.  

So anyway, 

appreciate you Jared. Yeah, appreciate you Mike.