Beyond the Mic with Mike

Leadership Capacity with Pastor Tim Gaddy

April 26, 2024 Mike Yates Season 1 Episode 14
Leadership Capacity with Pastor Tim Gaddy
Beyond the Mic with Mike
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Beyond the Mic with Mike
Leadership Capacity with Pastor Tim Gaddy
Apr 26, 2024 Season 1 Episode 14
Mike Yates

I'd love to hear from you!

**Title:** "Leadership Capacity: Expanding the Horizons of Church Leadership"

In this insightful episode of "Beyond the Mike with Mike," host Mike delves deep into the concept of "Leadership Capacity" with special guest Bishop Tim Gaddy, a seasoned church leader and the Arkansas District Superintendent. Bishop Gaddy shares his transformative journey from Chicago to Arkansas and his extensive experience in church planting and district leadership. The discussion pivots around the biblical principles of leadership growth, practical challenges in expanding one's leadership capacity, and the impact of effective ministry on community building. Bishop Gaddy emphasizes the importance of continual learning, submission to divine authority, and the practical steps leaders can take to enhance their influence and effectiveness in their ministries. Join us as we explore how leaders can expand their capacity to serve and lead more effectively, fostering growth not only in their congregations but also in their personal spiritual journeys.

**Key Insights:**
1. **Biblical Foundations of Leadership:** Bishop Gaddy highlights how scriptures like Matthew 25 relate to leadership growth and responsibility, stressing the need for leaders to multiply what they are given, reflecting the kingdom's principle of abundance.
2. **Overcoming Leadership Pitfalls:** The conversation covers common obstacles to leadership growth such as getting lost in minutiae, fear of failure, and the need for constant affirmation, offering strategies to navigate these challenges.
3. **Practical Growth Strategies:** Insights into actionable steps for leadership enhancement, including fostering a culture of learning, networking, and embracing opportunities for spiritual and professional development.
4. **The Role of Submission in Leadership:** Emphasizing the importance of submission to both divine and earthly guidance as a cornerstone for effective leadership and capacity expansion.

This episode is a treasure trove for anyone in leadership, particularly in religious organizations, looking to deepen their impact and grow their capacity to lead.

Show Notes Transcript

I'd love to hear from you!

**Title:** "Leadership Capacity: Expanding the Horizons of Church Leadership"

In this insightful episode of "Beyond the Mike with Mike," host Mike delves deep into the concept of "Leadership Capacity" with special guest Bishop Tim Gaddy, a seasoned church leader and the Arkansas District Superintendent. Bishop Gaddy shares his transformative journey from Chicago to Arkansas and his extensive experience in church planting and district leadership. The discussion pivots around the biblical principles of leadership growth, practical challenges in expanding one's leadership capacity, and the impact of effective ministry on community building. Bishop Gaddy emphasizes the importance of continual learning, submission to divine authority, and the practical steps leaders can take to enhance their influence and effectiveness in their ministries. Join us as we explore how leaders can expand their capacity to serve and lead more effectively, fostering growth not only in their congregations but also in their personal spiritual journeys.

**Key Insights:**
1. **Biblical Foundations of Leadership:** Bishop Gaddy highlights how scriptures like Matthew 25 relate to leadership growth and responsibility, stressing the need for leaders to multiply what they are given, reflecting the kingdom's principle of abundance.
2. **Overcoming Leadership Pitfalls:** The conversation covers common obstacles to leadership growth such as getting lost in minutiae, fear of failure, and the need for constant affirmation, offering strategies to navigate these challenges.
3. **Practical Growth Strategies:** Insights into actionable steps for leadership enhancement, including fostering a culture of learning, networking, and embracing opportunities for spiritual and professional development.
4. **The Role of Submission in Leadership:** Emphasizing the importance of submission to both divine and earthly guidance as a cornerstone for effective leadership and capacity expansion.

This episode is a treasure trove for anyone in leadership, particularly in religious organizations, looking to deepen their impact and grow their capacity to lead.

  Today's episode is titled Leadership Capacity. I am joined by Bishop Tim Gaddy.  He is the Arkansas District Superintendent. Let me take the time to give you his resume.  I have to confess, he's not a native Arkansan. Don't hold it against him. He was born in. Chicago until he was 18, but we saved him from that.

I don't know if he's a Cubs fan. We won't hold it against him.  We brought him out, rescued him. He went to  Christian Life College in Stockton, four years.  And then he met  our old district superintendent, the legendary Jim Lumpkin, became his pastor. He planted a church in Cabot, Arkansas, 25 years ago. You are an old man, Bishop. 

July, 1999. I graduated. High school  and joined the Navy in 99.  And my kids call me old. He has served as district youth president. He served as home mission slash North American missions director. And now he is constantly reelected as our district superintendent.  Brother Gaddy, I appreciate you taking the time.

I know time is of the essence. I appreciate you making time for this podcast.  

Mike, I am absolutely thrilled to join you on this podcast. I really appreciate and I honor what you're doing with Beyond the Mike with Mike. I love the title of your podcast, by the way. And it is a, it's a real honor to join you. 

I want to give him some more kudos. Not only is he making time for this podcast, but this is the nature of who he is.  When I got out of the Florida district and was joining the Arkansas district, Arkansas is my home, but I, when I was getting involved, there was a time when I had working for Verizon wireless and I couldn't make our 10 o'clock service. 

He has two morning services. I don't know if he still does, but he had two and I was able to drive from White Hall to Cabot, make the nine o'clock service. And I had had time to go to work.  And then I saw things done and I hadn't seen done before. And I was like, huh, why does he do this? And I got curious.

So he actually took the time to meet with me. At a Waffle House in Little Rock and answered my questions back then. I've never forgotten that. I've always been grateful for that. And this is just, I appreciate you. You've always been one of my favorites.  And I just love you and appreciate you for everything.

I want to tell everybody how you've always been there to help me.  

Well, thank you, Mike. In fact, it's interesting you bring that up because I very much remember that. That breakfast and that conversation. I cannot drive by. Mike. That area of Little Rock and that Waffle House without thinking about our conversation.

That was a, that was a few years ago, but I appreciate your hunger to grow and hopefully we're all desiring for that.  

Now you brought this topic up. And you know, for, for those who don't know, I  invite my list, my guest to bring the topic and he brought this one up. Leadership capacity. And I, Brother Gandy, I don't know if you've had a chance to go, go to the webpage and look at the topics.

And I don't know if you listened to the, to the intro or read the bio, but that is right up the wheelhouse of this podcast  to create  better leaders, to create better ministers, to open up the capacity, to make us better. Someone in, I used to do prison ministry and someone came to me with Psalms and they were worried about the scripture that says my cup runneth over.

And he was really burdened about that oil that runneth over. He felt like he was wasting the oil. So I told him, get a bigger cup.  And he said, how do I do that? I said, you grow,  get bigger.  And so that's what we're doing here today. And I know that  for the longest time you had Shane Clark as your youth leader.

And he's a good friend of mine. He had the Nexus.  He and I were cut from the same cloth and we were raising our youth group to learn how to be leaders in the church. I don't know about him, but my kids were teaching Bible studies and,  And that's what we're doing, learning leadership capacity, teaching them how to serve, and I'm excited you brought this.

So with that said, my listeners no longer care what I've got to say. You're the star of the show. Kick us off.  

Thank you, Mike. And thank you for referencing Shane Clark, a minister at our church. For a number of years, he was a great youth pastor here. And yes, like you, our students taught Bible studies and he and Wendy did a great job facilitating growth in our youth group.

In fact, we're We're now continuing to build upon the foundation that they laid, so thank you for referencing them. This is a topic, Mike, that is very, uh, much, um, important to me. I, I, I like to think that it's important to a lot of leaders because I have never met a leader yet. And I honestly hope I never meet one that says, I don't want to grow.

I don't want to be a better leader. I don't want to be more effective in leadership. And specifically, if you're a minister in ministry, I think it is a natural feeling in all of us, we want to be the most effective leaders that we can be. And, and I would just say, and this will be very little of what I will say this next part, but if you don't want to grow, if you don't want to lead effectively, if you don't want to.

expand your influence in the kingdom of God or your leadership and vocation, then I really question perhaps why you're even listening to this podcast because the whole podcast is designed around growth. But thankfully I've not met leaders like that. So when we talk about leadership and we talk about capacity, I think as, as ministers, especially appealing to our young ministers, listening to this podcast, we have to ask the question, does the Bible speak about leadership capacity?

Does the Bible speak about growing our leadership capacity? So allow me before I just share a scripture just to kind of give you My sense of what the word capacity means the word capacity literally means the ability to receive or contain the ability to receive or contain so leadership capacity is the ability to receive leadership or contain leadership and so that makes it very important that we are in your example and it was well said we're growing that capacity growing that ability to container, if you will, for leadership and the Bible speaks of this.

I, I'm, I'm thinking of Matthew chapter number 25,  where Jesus is giving a story about the kingdom of heaven. And I like Mike to, to think of it and in these terms, if you'll allow me to use a little bit of my own personal vernacular, it's almost as though Jesus is saying, saying this is the way the kingdom works when he uses terminology like the kingdom of heaven is like and unto in my mind when I read that in scripture I think this is the way the kingdom works and he's so eloquently Jesus so eloquently gives natural examples to communicate spiritual truth and in this particular passage in Matthew chapter 25 verse 14 he he says and I'll just use my vernacular there This is the way the kingdom works.

A man goes on a journey. He calls his servants, and he entrusts to them his property, entrusts to them talents, the scripture says. And, uh, very quickly we see that it's not really an equitable thing. He gives one, five talents. He gives another two, and then he gives a third individual one talent. And, and very quickly we see what they do with what has been given to them.

The one who received five goes out, and he begins to trade. And he makes five more talents. The one who received two talents does the same thing goes out. And through his work, through him doing something with what was given to him, he makes two more. And yet the story is told by Jesus in the way the kingdom works, is the one who received one talent went, he dug in the ground, he hid his master's money, his treasure.

And then the Bible says after a long time the master came back, and it was the day of reckoning. He was settling up with. His servants  he came to the one that had given been given five and he said what have you done? And the man said well, I I went and I You gave me five And here I have made five talents more and it's interesting what what the master said to his servant He said you have been faithful over a little  I will set you free over much.

And so based on what the servant did with what he had been given, the master did what only he could do. And that was to make him faithful over many things. And the same story with the one with two talents. He came to his master, said, you gave me two talents. You delivered those to me. I have made two more talents.

What was the response? The master said the exact same thing. You have been faithful over a little. I will set you over much and then we see the story shift because the one who had been given one talent came to his master And he started making a quick excuse. He said I knew you were a hard man you were reaping where you did not so you were gathering where you scattered no seed and Then the scripture says in verse 25 and I'm quoting The words of the one talent servant, I was afraid and I went and I hid your talent in the ground and he handed back to the master what he had been given.

And only that it was in this moment that the servants are rather the master's countenance changed because whereas he was joyful over the five talent servant. And the two talent servant that they had done something with what had been given. He was now very angry and I take note of this, Mike, and in verse 26 of Matthew 25, he calls him a wicked and a slothful servant.

You knew that I reap where I've not sown, gather where I scatter no seed. Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers. At my coming, I should have received what was my own with interest. So then the scripture says he took the talent from him and gave it to him who now has the ten talents. 

For to everyone who has, and  the inference here is the ones who do something with what they've been given,  more will be given.  and he will have abundance. But from the one who has the one, and the inferences here,  who doesn't do anything with what he's been given, even what he has will be taken away. And so we open the Bible and we see clearly there is precedent in Scripture for increasing What has been given to us, increasing the capacity of influence, the capacity of gifts, the capacity of leadership that has been given to us.

I have a friend, James Stark, who is a district superintendent in the Ohio district. He said this, and I took note of this, and I quote, God knows your ability and your capacity better than you do.  And so. So what we have been given as ministers and as leaders is absolutely a gift from God. God has given us that.

Now it's dependent on us to do something with what God has given to us, not just in function, not just in rote, repetitive duty, but what are we doing to grow the influence God has given us to grow the leadership that God has given us? And there's one more verse that I'll reference and then. You know, I kick it back to you and we can further discuss this, but, you know, Paul said this to the Corinthian church, the church that he had planted in that Grecian city.

He says, it is God who has composed the body and you believers are the body of Christ and you are members individually. And so each of us as members of the body of Christ, as leaders, as ministers. We have to realize we have been put in the body on purpose by God.  That means we have a purpose, we have a potential, we have an influence, and, and we're a part of an ever growing kingdom. 

Isaiah prophesied this. He said of the increase of the government and peace of our God. There will be no end. So we are a part of a growing kingdom.  Because of that, we need to be growing and we need to be expanding. So we do have strong biblical precedent for increasing leadership capacity.  

Oh, absolutely. 

Throughout the whole Bible, it's all about growth.  That's our point. Anything that doesn't grow is unhealthy.  That's right. So if you're not growing,  and I don't mean to be offensive, but I've asked my adults,  you know, if you have a A person who's been, who is in their 20s or 30s and they cannot read or write, you, you challenge their education system.

Mm hmm.  

If someone's been in church 20, 30 years and they can't quote a basic Bible story, you need to question their education system.  If, if, if a leader can't lead, been in ministry and he can't lead his way out of a wet paper bag,  so there has to be capacity. Um,  your next question that you had sent me was, was scripture say, but you talk about possible.

Oh, no, I was going to tell you what I thought the scripture that when you mentioned was, was Bible say, I thought about the foot washing,  how it started at the bottom.  He taught us, he taught us just, you know, it just started here.  You know, you got to, cause some, so many times we want to start, start at the top. 

I don't mind being in leadership if I get to be the boss. Right. Right. Right.  You know, as a military man, you got to work your way up the ranks from the bottom. 

Mm hmm.  Well, yeah. Yeah. Jesus said this. He said, if you're going to be greatest in the kingdom of God, you're going to be a servant.  And, and Jesus, of course, as you just referenced, he modeled that.

Here, God in flesh took a towel and a basin and washed the feet of the disciples. And so he was modeling for them what, what true leadership is, it's servanthood. And, you know, one of the things that I've mentioned, uh, to our young ministers here at our church, and I try to share this at other places that I go, is God has this way, Mike, if you and I will be faithful, Over what has been entrusted to us. 

And when I say faithful, I'm not just speaking about just  doing what God has called us to do, but growing in doing what God has called us to do. And we'll talk about that, how we do that here in a minute.  But if we will be faithful with what God has given to us and grow in that, that, that thing that God has given to us.

Here's the way I like to describe it. God has this way in his timing of turning the spotlight on that minister.  And promoting them. And when I say promoting, I'm not talking about for an arrogant reason,  placing them in the mind of a leader. of a, an influential person to be used, to be chosen, to be, we don't have to beat the door down in the kingdom of God to be used.

We just have to be faithful with what God has called us to have  and to grow that, that ministry. God will take care of promotion. It doesn't come from the East or the West. It doesn't come from our own abilities. It comes from God, but he's looking for faithful people. That's the story of Matthew 25, that the master was looking for people that did something and grew what had been given to them. 

So, what do you think the biggest problem is? What, what's the biggest holdup keeping us from having that capacity? The ability? 

Yeah. You know what? As I kind of look at that, just experientially in my life, as I examine that and just in the culture of leadership, especially in church work, there's some things that I, I feel are pitfalls.

So, let me just maybe enumerate those. And, and certainly this is not. An exhaustive list, but it's things I think that are, they're pertinent to us, uh, number one. And I know no other way to say it than this. I think one of the pitfalls to increasing leadership capacity is getting lost in the weeds with details. 

And we'll say that again, getting lost in the weeds with details. Now, let me explain what I'm not saying. I'm not saying that we don't need to have details covered. Because I'm, by nature, a detail guy. Diligence with details is very good, but just don't, let's not lose sight of what is most important.  And I want to give you a little story that maybe illustrates this, and, and it involves a, a trip that I took many, many years ago.

I was preaching at a church on the East Coast, And when I was picked up at the airport by the assistant pastor, we went out to eat. We got a nice meal. We went back to the church. He was going to show me the church and I was going to be there the weekend.  And we walked into the sanctuary. And when we walked in, he said, now I want to show you something, brother Gaddy.

And I really didn't know what he was going to show me. He said, I want you to look at the carpet in this sanctuary.  And that was kind of odd. I didn't expect him to say something like that. He said, I want you to notice. Number one, how clean the carpet is,  and then I want you to notice the lines  that have been made in the carpet from the vacuum cleaner. 

And I'm being very honest with you. He told me this.  And, and, and if you can just imagine, I know this is a podcast, it's audio, but our listeners, I want you to imagine this. Where are we at in imaginations? The carpet. In a, in a sanctuary with perfect  lines and, and they're overlapping and it's, it's very symmetric and it's very organized looking and it just, and I looked at it and it was very impressive.

I mean, I've never seen.  Number one, I don't know that I've ever really examined carpet that close, but I'd never saw anything quite like that. And I asked him, I said, well, tell me you obviously have a custodian or someone from the church. Maybe that, that is, this is their passion. He said, Oh no, no, this is our pastor that does this. 

And he spends at least two hours  vacuuming this carpet like this. Now let me take a time out  and make a statement that is just real practical. Okay.  I'm not suggesting that I was called to pastor that church, so I know this is going to sound a little judgmental on my part, but, but here's the thing I'm wanting to say.

I think it is easy if we're not careful in ministry.  Um, to major on things that we don't need to major on.  I guess I wonder in my mind, here's the first thought that came through my mind is I wonder what time could have been spent  teaching a Bible study,  honing the preaching ministry because someone else could have done a great job.

Maybe not to that degree, but done a great job with the carpet. And I guess that is kind of a flagrant example of what I'm talking about here. Thank you. You're welcome. If we're going to grow, if we're going to expand, we, we cannot get lost in the details. We can't get lost in the weeds. We've got to employ other people to help us release other people in the ministry, because that can be a pitfall that we.

We start majoring on things that are not the most effective thing and in the kingdom and the second thing that I will say that I think is a pitfall is comparison.  Okay. When we, when we compare our leadership to another leader, there is a high probability  that we are comparing to a leader with different talents than us. 

And I'll, and I'll say this, even a different number of talents than us, Mike, did you notice in Matthew 25, one leader or one servant had five talents, the other had two, the other had one. This kind of debunks the idea that everything has to be equal in the kingdom of God. That's right.  Some leaders are five talent leaders.

Some are two talent leaders. Some are one talent leaders. The issue is not who has the most talents. The issue is always what are we doing with what we've been given? That's right.  How are we growing with what we have been given? And so we have to resist the urge to compare ourselves and think that we're not valuable because of the number of talents or the type of talents that we've been given.

The question needs to be rather, what are we doing with what's been given to us? And then thirdly, I'll say this, one of the pitfalls I've noticed is the need to constantly be affirmed  because this can be a limiting thing in leadership. As a pastor, and you know this well, there are things that we do.  That nobody affirms us for  nobody comes up and says,  Pastor Mike,  man, you did X, Y, Z, and I noticed that.

And you're doing a great job,  but we have to be okay with not being affirmed all the time,  because if we have to be affirmed, that will limit our capacity to leave. We'll constantly be looking for affirmation rather than growing and understanding. That's just a part of leadership. And then, and fourthly, I'll say this, one of the, another pitfall is insecurity. 

The first thing that happened with the one talent leader is that he got afraid. He let his emotions rule the day.  And, uh, we have to manage our emotions so that we can increase our capacity. If we are insecure, we will see people as a threat. We will see people that we need to give jobs to as a threat.

And, and that will limit our capacity to grow our leadership. So those are some of the pitfalls I think that are easy to fall into if we're not careful.  

Before I bounce my list off of you for approval, I just, I still wanted to go back to the carpet.  Can you imagine someone trying to schedule a counseling? 

And he's, excuse me, no, I cannot do it at the time. I have a very important appointment.  

Very important appointment, yeah. It really was in a very stark way, an example of how easy it is to get lost in the weeds sometimes in those details.  

Now, I understand it's the house of God and you got to make it a priority, but yeah, you're right.

We can get lost in things that do not matter.  

Well, and I'll, yeah, and I'll say this, you know, it, does it matter that, that carpet is vacuumed? Yes. But in a greater sense, I would be robbing someone else from the opportunity to serve in the kingdom. Oh yeah. You know, act six is in the Bible for a reason. If there's going to be growth, act six was a, was a capacity increase in the church, but it won't, it was a cap capacity increase because they  release other people to serve in the kingdom.

That's awesome. And they were not insecure that they, they released people and they didn't get lost in the weeds of details. And so it's biblical. It really is. 

Yeah. Well, you know, my story, I can tell that pastor that that carpet can be taken from them overnight.  

That's exactly right.  Yes, sir. You know that well. 

Well, you know, I had your, your, your points and you're talking about roadblocks. I actually had two of yours, but let me ask you if I'm, If I'm on the track or if I missed the boat with some of the things  you mentioned, self esteem, I was, I call it a self awareness. We may not recognize our, our own weaknesses.

We may not be aware that  we've not, you know, some folks just are trucking along and doing what they've always seen done, or they're just following the rhythm and the pattern,  and they're just not self aware that, Oh, I could do more. I could grow. It's a lack of self awareness.  Does that make sense? Am I explaining it?

Yeah. No, that's a tremendous point. And I think along with that self awareness, how we correct  if we're not being self aware enough or we're not growing enough is we have to have honest people in our life. Number one, we have to be growing. We got to have honest people, friends, ministry colleagues, people that we can be authentic with and say to them, Hey, help me with blind spots, right?

We can't be too insecure to say that. Help me with blind spots. Show me, talk honestly. I want to grow. I want to be better. I feel like you're honest with me. And now you have to pick the right person. Don't pick someone that's going to brutalize 


but, but, you know, pick someone honest with you and, and, and  have them give you feedback because they can, they can see things.

I know people can see things in me that I can't see in myself. And that may be the difference between me realizing an area that I could grow in.  

And that leak that was tying into my next one was inadequate training on both sides. And I don't, I don't mean to disrespect  the, the, the elders.  But there has been a reluctance to let go, a reluctance in the past to release,  and that has stipend a lot of, stipend a lot of growth, and,  and therefore we've, there's not been a preparation.

You know, my, my, my episode one,  I grew, not Brother Aldridge, but I, I sat on another pastor. His idea of training was to scrub toilets for years. And, and, and I'm, I'm all for scrubbing toilets. I was in the Navy. I mean, that's, that was a job. So, I mean, I'm not a,  Dirty jobs, but not everyone needs that. So there are some people that are humble enough and  some folks need better training.

And so I think some folks just need it. They're not taught how to grow. 

Yeah, I think you're right on with that. And I think that we all need to be self feeders. We need to be, not excuse makers, but people who say, You know what I'm going to do? I know that the training may not be everything it needs to be, but I am personally going to be on the quest to grow.

And if that means I need to talk to my colleagues in the ministry and find out what books they're reading, what podcasts they're listening to, what sermons they're listening to, what seminars they're going to, I'm going to do that. I'm going to be a self feeder. That way we can resist the urge to blame someone, but rather grow.

And then, and here's the thing, it may take a while, but then we can build a culture around us where training is, I know it's important to you, but It becomes important in our, in our world and in our, our people that we're influencing. So yeah, yeah, that's a great point.  

And a fear of failure. I know some guys are just,  they like they're in the Navy.

It used to be perfectly normal for a sailor to retire at 20 to 30 years  as a seaman  in E3  because there was no responsibility.  They could just work. They can do their job and they can go home.  It's kind of like the,  well, I don't want to step, how do I work just without being ugly? It's kind of like a lot of preachers that like to go to church.

They like the title preacher. They like to fill a pulpit every now and then, but  they don't want a pastor.  That's just too much.  Am I saying that politically correct? 

No, no, I'm hearing what you're saying. I think as you say that, and that is, I will concur something with you on that, Mike. I think there is a danger  in.

Getting comfortable, you know, I use that, I'll use that word and that's better. Get comfortable in ministry. We get used to, it's like any other job. And I use that kind of in air quotes there, we learn to do certain things and we get to where we can function and we know kind of, you know, there's some surprises in ministry, but you kind of learn how to do certain things.

But the danger in that is that caps are. Our leadership and, uh, years ago, I read after John Maxwell, who was a leadership, he still has a leadership teacher. And he said, there's something called the law of the lid. And when you stop growing, you put a lid on your leadership and you have to take that lid off.

You have to do new things, try new things, and your, your leadership will grow. So we have to resist the urge just to be comfortable. And, and, and I'll speak this to you mentioned the Navy and you mentioned retirement and things like that. You know, retirement is a Western culture construct. It's not a kingdom construct there.

There's there really is not a biblical thing called retirement. Repositioning refiring.  Replanting are really Biblical ways of looking at things. The idea that we get to a place where we have just done enough and we just kind of collect our check the rest of our life,  that's not Biblical. We have to keep growing.

There's more lost souls, there's more people to influence, there's more young ministers to train. We should always be doing that and following the Biblical pattern.  

And last one that we, that you had was the poor communication, being able to communicate, someone talking to you. I had that too. Yay! I got two out of yours, so.

Here you go. Yeah,  and I know you were Jeffy. I think you were going to go next with the how to grow up. Yeah Yes, I was misleading me confusing where you wanted to go next. But 

yeah, no, I know I think it is very important to not Just identify the pitfalls But what are practical things that we can do to increase our leadership capacity to increase our container if you will number one When I think about this, Mike, I think about keep learning and keep implementing.

We cannot stop growing in our gifting. We have to expand our knowledge. And so I'll just say to everyone that's listening, and I applaud you for listening to this podcast, but what are you reading right now to grow in your area of ministry? Besides, Beyond the mic with Mike, what are you listening to as far as podcasts?

Who are you reaching out to for the purpose of learning? And so number one, we have to keep learning and we have to keep implementing. Secondly, we have to be willing in order to increase our leadership capacity to try something new.  And we have to also resist the urge with this to let fear paralyze us.

Now here's a newsflash for us, and it's kind of a simple thing, but it's true. What we try. It might not work, but it might,  that's the thing. It might not work, but it might work. We did something years ago, Mike, and I'll just reference this. We were out of room in our church seating and we had added another service and we thankfully the Lord was blessing and, and there was still no room.

And so we decided to come up with a, an overflow live stream room. At our church for Sundays,  and we ask people in our church to rotate every few weeks going in the live stream room had a big screen and we will live stream the service in there and they had church in there in our building. It was still in our building, but it wasn't in the actual sanctuary.

And we tried that. And I would like to tell you that that was the golden key to the next phase of revival, but it was not.  We tried it. And it did free up about 20 seats in our sanctuary,  which was great because we could fit more guests in there. But it was something that didn't work long term. But you know what it did?

It let us realize, Hey, this is a church that's flexible enough to try something.  And I think the Lord honored that because we continued to grow. We Modified our children. And when they were in the sanctuary and when they were out, we tried all sorts of different things, but we have to be willing to try something new if we're going to grow.

We, we cannot just stay status quo. And, and then I'll just reiterate from a practical standpoint, in order to increase our leadership capacity, we have to be faithful with what has been given to us and what is expected. Of us. And I go back to the whole idea of if we will be faithful with what we've been given and we'll grow it. 

God will turn the spotlight on at the right time. He'll honor that. He just will. He said to the servants, Well done good and faithful servant enter into the joy of the Lord. So  

bless your heart having so many people You don't have room for them. I'll make sure to pray for you in your church. I know that's sad such a burden  Uh, bless your heart.

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with that.  I won't take that in the most positive light that I can.  I honestly do rejoice with you. This all kind of a moment. But those are very encouraging words for me, and for the note, my church is killing it. We had 20 last night on a Wednesday night, and that is Praise God. 

That is 

Praise God. I rejoice with you, my friend. 

We had 48 for Easter and that was, man, we're, we're growing. 

Amen. I, I, that's wonderful. That's wonderful. God has given a special grace to you all with what you've gone through with the fire and, and all of that, the displacement that that caused, God has given a special grace to y'all and it's a beautiful thing to see. 

You know, you've got more growth practices besides that one.  

Yeah. You know, the, the last thing I would say, just from a practical standpoint to increase our leadership capacity, Mike, is to say stay submitted to God and to spiritual leadership. And God honors that and He, he trusts us when we are submitted.

In fact, God won't bless if we're not submitted. And I, I think about, and I'll reference again what I, what I mentioned earlier about Isaiah in chapter nine, in verse six and seven of that prophetic writing.  That says of the increase of his government and peace, there shall be no end. And Isaiah, in that passage, was prophesying about the coming Messiah. 

When we get to the New Testament and the Gospel of John, and we go to chapter 12 and we see what is mentioned about this Messiah, Jesus Christ, the Bible says that he was, and I'm paraphrasing here, he was submitted to his parents.  And he was submitted to their leadership.  And so it lets me know that this whole idea of submission is the pathway to increased leadership.

The more influence God gives us, the more submitted we need to be to God and to other people.  I think about Acts chapter 13, when the disciples were being sent out, the apostles were being sent out, church planters were being sent out. The Bible says that they came to the apostles and they laid their hands on them, they prayed over them, and they sent them out.

Inherent within the word apostolic is the word apostle, and it means to be sent, which means by inference and strong indication, submission. You cannot be sent if you're not submitted to somebody. And so this submission piece is very important to increase leadership.  

Outstanding.  Brother Gaddy, I'm a little embarrassed now.

You went deep and spiritual on your list, and I went practical and secular.  

No, no, no. We help each other, man.  

Well, I would, of course, you know, some of the opposites, if we talk about some of the roadblocks, you know, we're like training, or lack of training, so you gotta get training. Seek professional development opportunities.

Go to conferences.  You know, if there's a growth conference, you know, if a church is putting on a  One of the best conferences I went to was in Dallas, it was at Garland Church with Brother Hargrave and Cecil Perry, he passed unexpectedly in a wreck, but they had Brother Sistron, they had Brother Frank, what's his face, and the guy from D.

C., and they had Chester Wright come and they talked, it was a church planters conference, and I didn't know I was going to plan a church, but it It was a chance to grow and learn about planning the church, and it was great,  uh, and you do, but network, get outside your church, get outside your area and network, make friends, grow,  develop a feedback mechanism to work on your communication skills, we talked about that, mentorship  and coaching, we talked about that, but the main thing I wanted to add were define your goals and determine your core values. 

Know where you're going and know what you believe. And if you believe in growth and if you believe in being set,  it'll dictate that you can't sit still. It'll dictate that you must continue reading  it.  You must. Otherwise you don't really believe that. That's not really a core value.  

Yeah, that's a great point.

I, when you say that, what comes to my mind and I so appreciate that because  it's kind of like a divine discontent  in order to grow. We got to have a divine discontent. It doesn't mean that we're upset about where we're at, but we're not satisfied and it's not just to simply gratify us, but we look at the harvest, Mike, and we see all the souls that need to be saved and, and the influence that we can have on people.

And so it makes us want to grow. I pray it will always be our testimony.  

I also had to be flexible, and you mentioned that with your church, so.  Sure. So important.  Now, I added something on my phone as you were talking, and this, I'm gonna let, uh, this be my last point before I, uh, I'm gonna let you close it.

You kept talking about, it'll grow, if we're, if we are, if we're good stewards, what we've been given, it'll grow.  And it, the thought crossed my mind that,  We're not growing a rock. We're not growing a stick. It's a living word. It's a living thing and therefore it needs to be sold.  It's got to be watered.

It's got to be maintained. We got to make sure there's no thorns. Got to make sure there's no birds coming. Got to make sure we have to work it. 


It takes work. And so, so many times we think if we just hold onto it,  we'll be fine.  And there's a lot of people holding on to their ministry,  but they're not growing it because they're not working it.

Right. Right. They're not sowing it. Yeah.  

That's such a good point. That's such a good point because  it's not a magical formula. There's no like little magical thing we do to grow our ministries. It's, it's, I thank you for saying that it's hard work.  It's diligence. It's  being faithful. It's doing something with what's given to us.

I mean, you hit the nail right on the head with that.  

Well,  that's what I've got for my list, uh, my portion of it. You wanna, you got anything, final thought on that for our, in this, the episode? 

Yeah, I'll just say this, and again, I so appreciate, uh, Mike, you having me on this, this podcast. I honor what you're doing.

I honor your hunger for growth. And helping other, helping us as ministers grow. This is valuable to us. It's valuable to the Kingdom of God. I have two children, and when my children were small, it would have been quite absurd for me to stand over them and demand that they grow.  Just kind of declare it over, Landon, grow!

Madison, grow! That would have been foolish because that, that's not how it works. How it works is making sure as a father and my wife as mother, Uh, feed them good food,  get, get them in a good environment, make sure they get their rest, they drink water, you know, that kind of thing.  And what we found, and thankfully my kids grew and they're adults now, they're on their own, they're, they're making their way in the world with God's help. 

But what we found is if you get healthy. Growth will come. You get healthy. So as ministers, if we can practice healthy habits, reading, growing, listening, checking in with people, being accountable, staying submitted. If we can be healthy ministers that have that divine discontent to grow, growth will naturally happen.

We don't have to muster it up. We don't have to get, you know,  nervous about it. It will happen.  But it just takes our, our hunger and our hard work. So it's not a magic formula. It's  staying away from the pitfalls,  doing the practical things we've talked about on this podcast, submitting our lives to God and spiritual leadership, and we will see opportunities grow, see influence grow, and more than anything and most importantly, we'll see the kingdom of God grow.

And that's why God's called us into the ministry. So It's been a great joy to be on this podcast with you. 

Well, I appreciate you so much. I always do these well in advance, you know, give myself time for things to happen. So this Friday will be one to, it'll be three Fridays from now before this gets aired.

By then it'll be almost Mother's Day.  Do you have anything coming up that I need to promote, that I need to push out? Anything at your church, anything,  anything at the district I don't know about, we've got men, ladies conference will be gone by the end of 

Yeah, it'll be gone by that. Really just the, the summer activities, if you want to just promote the district activities, you know, the, the camps, that English camp meeting, Spanish camp meeting, and men's conference.

So we have six opportunities this summer for people to be involved, motivated, strengthened, and if you want to push that out, that would be a blessing. 

Okay.  ArkansasDistrict. com, ARyouth. com. ARyouth does a much better job of keeping up with the calendar than Arkansas District. I got to tell you. 

Yeah. And that, that would be on, on the ArkansasDistrictUPCI.

com website, we have the link to all the CAMP information so they can go to the bottom of that homepage for that. But yes, the Arkansas Youth and the Children's Registry Facebook page, those are very good to get the specific information. Yeah. Yes. So. 

The, because I don't have 'em all memorized, I'd have to pull up my calendar, but please do go.

So it's Arkansas district com and it's,  and it's ar I'm proud of Austin for doing that. The Arkansas district, UCI. Yeah. Your links are there, but the calendar is never full. I'll go click on the Yes. Calendar and it's empty and I'm always, my heart's empty. I'm like, oh,  

yeah. You know what we've done recently is I have sent over a document that shows.

Some of the events because some of our events on that are not on this document are departmental events and some of them are added rather  well past when we go to press for this document. So I've had them add the document and I'll verify that, but I've had him add the document, which is not filling in the actual calendar, but it is a document.

But yeah, we'll we'll shore that up. 

Okay. Well, there you have it, folks.  Go check out the websites. Unfortunately, I don't have everything memorized. I just know,  you know, camps are in the summer and you heard them.  That's the best I can do right now. This conference is in August. Used to be May when I mentioned it. 

Right. May for a few years. Brother Gaddy, I do appreciate you so much. I guess that's it. Thank you for your time. 

Thank you so much, Mike. I've enjoyed being with you.