A Time of Preparation with Jerry Jones

### Podcast Summary: A Time of Preparation with Reverend Jerry Jones

In this insightful episode, host Brother Mike interviews the esteemed Reverend Jerry Jones, focusing on the theme "A Time of Preparation." Reverend Jones shares profound wisdom on the significance of preparation in ministry, drawing on biblical examples, personal experiences, and practical advice.

### Key Points Discussed

#### 1. The Importance of Preparation in Ministry
- **Biblical Examples:** Reverend Jones discusses how the Apostle Paul spent a decade preparing for his ministry after his conversion. He highlights the critical roles of Joseph of Arimathea and Barnabas, emphasizing their contributions to the early church and their titles as "good men."
- **Paul's Development:** Paul’s journey included extensive study, mentorship under Barnabas, and learning to be a preacher and a brother in faith. This preparation was essential for his impactful ministry, demonstrating that one-third of his ministry was dedicated to preparation.

#### 2. The Role of Mentorship
- **Mentorship and Guidance:** Reverend Jones underscores the importance of having mentors. He notes that Paul was guided by Barnabas and later became a mentor to others. Mentorship helps in understanding scripture, developing preaching skills, and navigating ministry challenges.
- **Pastor vs. Mentor:** A pastor should ideally be a mentor, but it's beneficial to have multiple mentors for different aspects of ministry. However, the primary mentor should be the pastor, ensuring alignment and support within the church community.

#### 3. Practical Preparation Tips
- **Continuous Learning:** Preparation is an ongoing process. Preachers should always strive to learn more about scripture, theology, and the needs of their congregation. Understanding people and their struggles is as crucial as biblical knowledge.
- **Holistic Development:** A well-prepared preacher must be well-versed in practical aspects such as church administration, counseling, and community engagement. Balancing theological knowledge with practical application is key to effective ministry.

### Key Insights and Takeaways

1. **Dedicate Time for Preparation:** Just as Paul spent years preparing for his ministry, modern-day preachers should invest significant time in studying and understanding the Bible, developing their skills, and learning from mentors.
  
2. **Embrace Mentorship:** Mentorship plays a crucial role in shaping effective ministry. Seek guidance from experienced mentors, including your pastor, and be open to learning and growing under their guidance.

3. **Stay Humble and Patient:** The journey to effective ministry involves challenges and setbacks. Stay humble, be patient, and trust in the process of preparation. God values the time spent in preparation and uses it to equip you for future challenges.

4. **Continuous Improvement:** Preparation never ends. Continuously seek to improve your understanding of scripture, enhance your preaching skills, and stay connected with your congregation’s needs. Always be ready for new opportunities that God presents.

### Recommendations for Further Listening

- **Urshan Pulpit Podcast:** Hosted by Reverend Jerry Jones and Jonathan McClintock, this podcast delves into various aspects of preaching and ministry, providing valuable insights for aspiring and seasoned preachers alike.

### Final Thoughts

Reverend Jerry Jones emphasizes that preparation is foundational to impactful ministry. By dedicating time to study, seeking mentorship, and continuously improving, preachers can effectively fulfill their calling and make a significant difference in their communities. This episode serves as a powerful reminder that preparat

Transcript

 Today's episode is titled a time of preparation. I have the illustrious Reverend Jerry Jones with us today. I will, I've told him I'm not even going to worry about giving him a short bio because it would take forever. We all know who he is. I'm, I'm excited that he would take the time. 

Elder, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today and sharing your wisdom with us.  

Thank you, brother Mike. I appreciate the invitation so much, and I'm just honored to be here. 

Well, it, I appreciate you taking the time. Now we called it a time of preparation. Tell us what, what that means to you.

Cause you picked this topic. Start us off.  

Well, I've been I was studying for a sermon that I once preached about about how to be a good man. And the reason I said that was I, I preached it at  Men's conference and then in a more general audience once or twice I called it how to be a good person, but  there's only two men in the in the New Testament that are called specifically good man doesn't mean there weren't a lot of other good man, but,  but only two were specifically labeled as good men.

And amazingly, both of them were named Joseph. One was Joseph of Arimathea, and the other was Joseph, who is also known as Barnabas.  And in preaching, of course, about Arimathea, we  know the role he played in claiming the body of Jesus and providing a place for him to to be buried.  Joseph or Barnabas, however, played a significant role in the early church.

I think sometimes because Paul became the star of the, of almost two thirds of the book of Acts and of course wrote well over half of the new Testament. We overlooked the fact that in actuality, Barnabas  was his pastor and leader, and in fact, was instrumental in Paul's development.  When, when we think of Paul I think it goes without any controversy.

He was probably the most significant preacher  who has ever lived.  His,  his writings serve as the foundation of much of Western civilization.  It's called Judeo Christian principles, but in reality, much of it is based on the ideas that Paul puts forth in particularly The two Corinthians and the book of Romans Galatians, Colossians both play their part.

But  when we think of all,  we think of someone who changed the world, 

it 

continues to change the world.  Sometimes we forget 

Paul's ministry was.  was focused in a, in a relatively very few years.  It's usually agreed that Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus probably in 34 AD, 34, 35, somewhere like that.  We know that he then disappears except for a brief visit to Jerusalem to meet with James and Peter and some of the other Apostles.

He goes home  and at home, he spends a nearly a decade.  Not, we have absolutely no record of what he's doing. Knowing Paul, I'm sure he wasn't  sitting in his mother's basement playing video games. 

Right. 

So you have to think that he understood, regardless of the fact he had been educated  at one of, one of the,  best schools available to a Jewish young person.

He, he studied at the feet of Gamaliel is how he said it.  And regardless of the fact that he said, I was a Pharisee of the Pharisees and, and regardless of the connotations that, that the Pharisees rightly earned for themselves with their self righteousness and, and so forth, it was a sect of great biblical learning and emphasis on knowing the law, knowing the books of Moses and, and, and Paul absolutely filled that bill.

And yet we have to assume that those 10 years between his conversion around 34  and Barnabas's visit  To, to Paul's hometown, to hire him as the assistant pastor, to come to Antioch in somewhere around 43, 42, somewhere in there, almost 10 years. And there Paul begins his more public ministry under the  mentorship of Barnabas. 

And, and so  Paul spends the first 10 years preparing.  The end.  His ministry begins as an assistant pastor  helping Barnabas.  And then in around 47 or so, he and Barnabas go on what we call Paul's first missionary journey. They're gone a couple of years, come back. He plays a significant role.  In the Jerusalem council, representing the Gentiles who he realizes he's been called to be the apostle to the Gentiles. 

And then  most scholars would agree that Paul's significant writings began around 50 or so,  and he writes until his his execution and, and there's debate. Some ancient writers basically tied it.  In fact, one tied it with the great fire at Rome and Nero's  scapegoating the Christians. in 64.

Some would argue that although Peter probably died in that  in 64 or 5 during that persecution, it is possible that Paul lived a couple of years longer. And there are scholars who would say that Paul lived until say 67.  Well, if he, if he, Was executed in 67 and converted in  34. That means his entire ministry was a little over 30 years.

And 10 of that was B was spent in preparing  for the next 20.  So fully one third of Paul's ministry was spent in being prepared. And some would argue even more because. Even the, what we call Paul's first  missionary journey, actually Barnabas was the leader of that. It was more Barnabas and Saul. It was never Saul and Barnabas.

So Paul understood quite obviously, even with his hard driving type A personality, Paul understood the need. He describes  His feelings about that when he is he is sharing his conversion and his early ministry,  and he describes leaving Damascus and spending two years  in Arabia, and there he is studying the scriptures. 

To see how all of this works a Jew Pharisee, and now he meets Jesus Christ, and he has to get all of that worked through  in the Old Testament scriptures, then after two years of solitary study. He goes to Jerusalem and, and he asks to meet. Now, Paul is famous. He became famous as a persecutor.  We read, we realized that because when he converted, he immediately became the target  of, of an assassination plot.

Now, just any  Jew converting to Christianity would not have garnered that kind of attention, but they wanted to kill Paul because he was known. As a actually a violent, they would consider it totally justified to drag Christians back to Jerusalem and chains and have them executed. And for him to convert was a great blow to the enemies of the church.

So he was well known when he arrived in Jerusalem. I'm quite sure that the, the apostles knew who he was. knew his story. And so meeting with them was not  unusual at all. They would have done that, but he describes it. He says, I did that because I wanted to be sure  that I had it right.  I wanted, I wanted to sit down under the mentorship. 

of the people who knew Jesus, who walked with him, Peter, the first Pentecostal preacher and, and all of the other apostles, James, the brother of the Lord, who was the leader of the Jerusalem church.  Paul understood the need to sit with elders, to sit under their teaching, to, to  To grasp the idea. I'm a scholar.

I'm highly educated. I'm a freeborn Roman citizen. That was very rare in his day, probably a very prominent family back home,  but Paul set.  And, and, and discuss the word of God with the elders in Jerusalem, fishermen and carpenters and men who, from a social standing a worldly standing Paul was miles ahead of them,  but he understood if I'm going to have a ministry that is going to change the world, I have to be involved.

prepared. I have to  spend the time  to make myself ready.  It's a little more difficult to explain the  seven years or so,  because we don't know how long he stayed in Jerusalem, relatively short period of time, probably,  but he goes home and for six, seven years, he's home, totally out of focus. He's not mentioned in Acts during this period of time.

He, he falls out of the narrative. One has to believe that he's not only learning the scriptures and being sure that he understands the gospel and that he grasps what God had done in coming into this world. But then also he's learning how to be a preacher.  He's learning how to preach. He's learning  a man with his obvious personality, how to be a brother, how to work in a system, how to, Paul never traveled alone.

Paul never did what he did as a Lone Ranger. He always was surrounded, usually with younger preachers that he was mentoring, but also with older preachers. His whole first missionary journey was as the second man, with Barnabas taking the lead, and it was obviously  Obviously. So there's, there's that interesting event where,  um, Paul and Barnabas,  there's an, there's a remarkable healing and the people in the town come rushing together and they're, they're, they, they decide these two men are gods.

And it's interesting who was who in their estimation, Barnabas. was Zeus and Paul was Mercury or Artemis.  In other words, Barnabas was the king god. He was the boss god. 

And 

Paul was simply the mouthpiece, the message bearer. And that probably gives us an idea of that Paul was still  being mentored, still being taught, even after 10 years of preparation. 

And of course, later he and And  Barnabas had a difference of opinion because Barnabas was mentoring another young man and Paul felt it wasn't going well. And this is too important to take a chance. And so over John Mark, they decided to go their own way. And Barnabas continued, although he falls from the narrative of acts.

There's no reason to believe he did not continue on with missionary work and preaching to the Gentiles. And we know Mark eventually became right hand man to Peter and gave us the gospel, which we are told was the teachings and preaching of Peter that Mark put to paper. And later, of course, he and Paul have a mutually beneficial relationship, but Paul  changed the world. 

In a short, roughly a 20 year period,  and he did that, I think, because he was prepared from day one when the door open when Barnabas knocked on his door.  And said, I've got this church. I've been sent by the brethren in Jerusalem to organize, preach and teach these brand new convert Gentiles. It was a Gentile church and I need help.

And Paul was ready and, and he placed himself  even after 10 years of preparation, he placed himself under Barnabas.  Mentorship.  So having said all of that and realizing that when we recognize are called to preach and we know God has called us, we're in a hurry  because our eschatology teaches us, Jesus could come today.

And if I'm going to get out there and get the work done, I've got to get going now.  And, and of course, in the perspective of. Old age. I, I sometimes get asked. In fact, it's almost the standard question  when I take part in panel discussions or questions and answers. Probably the most common question is you could go back  and speak to your 20 year old self.

What would you say?  And I usually get some raised eyebrows because my stock answer is.  I would say, calm down. The Lord's not coming until you're at least 71 years old.  And people look at that, like, what are you saying? Well, what I'm saying is  take the time to get prepared, take the time to study, take the time to master the word of God, the gospel of Jesus Christ. 

Take the time to. Master the art of communication, preaching, a spiritual life, a relationship with God, learn what it is to be a preacher, to be a pastor. And you learn that from the experience of others. And this is the vital importance of mentors and teachers  that  help you get to that place.  where you're ready.

And let me tell you,  in many ways, God's in a bigger hurry than we are, even at our most frantic moment.  But God knows the work is too important. I've watched too many young preachers flame out  because they weren't really ready.  And they thought they were, and they had talent  and they had ability,  passion,  and had a spiritual walk with God.

But  there were, there were huge holes in what they knew and, and questions they could answer and, and, and things they could present.  Now, I, I want to say, I'm not saying you. You just go sit down and do nothing. I'm saying you make yourself available.  Paul's first mission the first ministry was as an assistant under Barnabas who had extensive experience as a help.

In the church of Jerusalem under the Apostles. So when they sent Barnabas out, he took Paul in and reproduced in Paul what he had experienced in Jerusalem under the Apostles. And so this mentorship process is vitally important. So if you're a young preacher, Don't despise the day of starting out  of being a local young preacher of, of  basically going to the, to the minister nights under your pastor, who, of course, is your first and most important mentor  and  listen and learn and develop apply yourself. 

Never ever. Criticize, complain, because I'm not in the pulpit. I'm not being used. You could be sitting in mom's basement, like I've sometimes say Paul was doing, and no preaching as far as we know, no ministry as far as we know, for almost a decade. But he was preparing himself. And when his day came, he was ready.

And he accomplished what God called him to do.  So don't despise the day of preparation. Seize it with both hands and understand how vastly important it really is.  

Awesome.  Awesome. Awesome. I took some notes while you were talking that I could, I wanted to comment back on if you don't mind. I don't 

mind at all. 

When you were talking about Paul and I took these in, these are not in order of importance, but in the order that you mentioned them when Paul first Got converted. He was not originally accepted by the brethren because they knew absolutely not.  And that was his first opportunity  to quit.  And I wonder if part of his preparation was not also preparing his spirit, re humbling himself, re guiding himself, but that I believe that's part of our preparation for young men.

Cause we, we expect  the pretty side of it. We expect the  glorified side of it. But you're sometimes we need to prepare your spirit for the ugly side, prepare your spirit to be misunderstood. Does that make sense?  

Not only makes sense. It's exactly true with, with Paul's personality type. This was, this was a, this was a hard charging man.

He, when, when he made his mind up, it took God to change his mind. He wasn't  really.  The kind of man who'd make a good second man.  So that's exactly where God put him as a second man because he needed  he needed to to develop that kind of spirit. When you read his writing.  The, the patience, sometimes he could be harsh, yes, and direct, but much of the time  when Paul was dealing with church issues, he would,  he would, he would show a patience and a compassion.

His humbleness when he had introduced himself to the Roman church. He'd never been there. He had no part in its founding and they were not his people.  So when he writes to them, though, his doctrine is unshakable and his theological points  are, are forcefully presented.  He comes to them with a very humble and a very, I know you don't know me.

Let me tell you what I preach. Let me tell you what I stand for. And I think he learned this. I don't think that was built into his personality. Yeah, he was misunderstood. In fact, Ananias tried to get out of even going and praying for the man and get praying him through the Holy Ghost. He wanted God to send somebody else.

They were afraid of him. 

That's right. And 

Although they showed love, they lowered him over the wall. If they really had been against him, they would have sent him out that front gate to death.  But instead they lowered him over the wall in a basket, gave and preserved him for what God had planned for him.

And there's no hint now later on, he and Peter would have a very  heated discussion about Peter not sitting and eating with the Gentiles when he visited Antioch,  but those were two theological positions and Peter and Barnabas were trying to, the Gentiles didn't care.  The Jews did, and they were still trying to keep peace in the church until they could bring the Jewish people, Christians, along to see that that old line between Jew and Gentile was gone. 

Paul was younger and more forceful in personality, and he was having none of it.  But in that, First meeting when Paul shows up in Jerusalem after two years in solitary study, there's not a hint that they didn't show him love and respect, spend time with him, develop him.  But Paul, yes, had to learn in the school of hard knocks and it is with every young preacher. 

Maybe that's some part of when I said we need to learn to be preachers. We need to learn the good and bad, you know the things that work and the things that don't work. They're all part of it.  And when we're invited and when we're not invited, when we're made part and when we're forgotten, all of these things are part of our service to God. 

And I think it's important that, yes, from the get go, if we have settled some of those things,  when, when young preacher shipwreck,  it's usually because they're offended.  Yep. Somebody said something. They weren't  given a place on the platform.  They're,  they messed up and maybe someone was more cruel and kind.

 But yeah, we have to learn to take the bad with the good and get our feet under us and realize that, you know, there's no such thing as defeat in the work of God. There's setbacks and there's times we didn't do what we thought we should have done as far as our abilities and our presentation and preaching and so forth, but  you just get up and go on and you don't learn that. 

Without  two things, experiencing it's yourself and having a mentor who loves you and  begins to school you about some of these things.  

You were talking about the devil. When young ministers fail, it's cause got offended. I saw something on the internet and I saved it and I was going to work it in somehow, and I guess this is the time the devil won't come through your front door.

He'll come in through the cracks in your foundation.  So I guess when,  yeah, when we're preparing, we need to prepare, make sure we're preparing our foundation. So often we get excited about mastering that sermon. That we don't work on our foundation, make sure we have a good spirit. Not that we don't need to work on our craft.

And I've already talked on that and I'm a big believer in that, but I just wanted to focus on that. When you're talking about the  working on on that subject, working on our hearts and our spirits, is that why the back, the Bible says on the apartments for an elder, not a novice because a new person wouldn't have the time invested in preparation of themselves to handle everything. 

Oh, absolutely. I think it goes without any doubt. Um, he's describing someone upon whose shoulders rest the work of God in a local area. A pastor,  someone who deals with the saints of God and their struggles and problems and discouragement.  And Someone who handles teaching in a way that people actually assimilate and apply to their lives and become better and grow. 

And  I think some have read that and, and almost feel offended. You know, it means you shouldn't, you know, I think I'm ready and all, but  it is based on time and service. A novice.  Of course, a novice can be 40 years old.  If he was just recently called, a novice can be 20 years old. If recently called, I'm sorry to say he can be 40 if he was called at 20, if he didn't apply himself and did not prepare himself and submit himself to the elders.

I mean, we see it in a whole church in Corinth that Paul said, you ought to be eating a steak and you're still taking a Bible. It's time to grow up. And so, yeah, but beside that, I think it's a very simple expression that. You, you, you, you don't want to put someone in a position that they're not prepared for. 

And doesn't mean God won't help someone. I mean, and people sometimes get thrust into positions bigger  than they are  and God sees them through.  And if that happens, I mean, think of the Apostles.  I mean,  a couple of months before they, they had been running into the night because Jesus had been murdered had been  assessed or executed. 

And now 50 days later, they've got a church on their hands, you know, thousands in one day got the Holy Ghost and baptized and, and within a week or two, maybe three, another 5, 000, some estimate the church in Jerusalem was at 80, 000  strong within the first three or four years. Think about these,  but they had spent three years with Jesus. 

And though they don't show a whole lot of  spiritual maturity at the time of the crucifixion,  quite obviously, they were further along than maybe even they realized.  Jesus had planted some seed  and they did it.  They, they accomplished what God called them to do. But if you, if you're not thrust into a situation like that, then carefully prepare for your day to arrive. 



 I think, I think the Bible bears this out and I think I've noticed this through years.  If you've prepared yourself.  And what happens is bigger  still than what you are.

God makes up the difference.  If you haven't taken it seriously and really prepared yourself, God is an obligated to make up the difference.  And I think these men had forsaken all and followed Jesus. 

That's good. 

And they had done the best they could. They were not really novices. They had gone out two by two and cast out devils and preached the gospel.

And they were not truly novices. They were in graduate school and didn't do too well, but  they were much better prepared, I think, than we  would think. But I think because They made a good effort.  God made up the difference. And I think, I think that's what we can expect.  Could we deal with 80, 000 soul revival in  six, eight years?

Of course we could. And of course it's not a Pentecostal revival, but in about 15 months or so, a hundred thousand new converts came into the churches in Wales.  And although from this 100 year, 110 year distance, you don't see a whole lot. It, it. it changed the course of that country for years and years to come. 

If, if God gave us such a revival we don't know how many thousands came to God at Azusa  or in, or in Galena or in Houston or along the Sabine River in Western Louisiana and Eastern Texas.  Thousands of people overnight came to God. Coal organizations  ceased being whole in this and became Pentecostal overnight. 

And it, that movement changed the world. So I don't worry about it. Whatever God gives us, we can handle it, 

but 

we have to deliberately prepare ourselves as best we can.  

Nice. Well, well said. Well said. I want to appreciate you for clarifying that you were talking about You starting out does not mean you have to just sit down and be silent, but make yourself available.

I appreciate you saying that because preparation does require action. And I want, I just want to thank you  my very first episode. Was called better 50 year olds. And I don't mean to disrespect, but there's a lot of people that were trained on sitting down for three years before you get to do anything and as a way of testing you,  but we don't have time for that anymore.

You know, there's not, everyone needs that. And so I'd rather have, When I get done training my guys, I want them to be better at my age than I am now, you know, and I want them anyway, I appreciate you  clarifying, make yourself available. 

A great mentor doesn't have a stock curriculum.  

That's good. 

He doesn't say everybody's got to take this class, this class, this class.

That's the difference between a college professor.  and a mentor. A mentor is connected to the individual  and his instruction and training and preparing  is driven not by a predetermined path but by that individual.  If Paul came to your church in Tarsus,  and sat down on the pew. You would not treat him as you would a young man  who was totally uneducated, unprepared, didn't know scripture, didn't understand the workings of God's spirit.

You would, you would take Paul where he is  and bring him along. Barnabas  As far as we know,  more than likely met Paul in Jerusalem in 36 or 35 but had not seen him for seven or eight years, but he remembered him  and he had confidence that Paul had been preparing himself and he made that journey. He would have.

Probably sailed in a ship. It would have been an expensive proposition, and he sailed to Tarsus and sat down  with Paul and hired it.  Now, I don't really know if it was a hired position or what one would have to think it was, and he knew Paul would be ready.  He wasn't looking for a novice. He wasn't expecting a novice and he didn't get enough  and the world was changed because Barnabas  took Paul where he was and brought him. 

And  now that is not to say  that each of us probably think more highly of ourselves. than we ought.  Scripture says we do.  And but it warns us about that. And so submission to a mentor who knows you, loves you, is not just trying to keep you in his church, but he's genuinely trying to prepare you  for the mission that God is going to send you on.

You should submit yourself to him and trust him or her to bring you to where God is Can begin to fulfill his purpose in your life.  

Please explain the difference between a mentor and a pastor in case you have, or the, the ability to have both multiple mentors. Cause that's a hairy subject, a confusing subject.

There are interchangeable. Sometimes some pastors don't believe you could have another mentor besides themselves. Please explain that subject, please.  

Well, of course, a pastor should be a mentor. All pastors should be mentors. A mentor, as I said, is not just a teacher. A mentor works within the existing person, where that person is  and develops him or her.

And can a pastor be a mentor? He ought to be. And can a mentor be your pastor? Of course.  Multiple mentors. Certainly. I think as in all things, there's  their strength in a multitude of counselors, mentors, but I, I think your pastor is primary  and  should be the final say, and the, the one you go to,  to settle any.

And if a mentor feels. If he's a D, if he's a good mentor and he knows what he's doing and discovers he's advising you in a way your pastors are by advising you in another way, he's going to change his direction because your pastor knows you, your pastor's placed there by God.  And of course, that brings me to my hobby horse about mentors.

It became  very common. I think it still is, but. About 15 years ago or so preachers were all encouraged to have mentors  to pick two or three mentors and, and have, and you choose them and you  submit to them. And what I found going on  is if you, if all your mentors are, are under your  control.  And what I mean by that is you chose them to be your mentor. 

And you have no mentors that you didn't put there. God put them there. Maybe it's your pastor. Maybe, well, it should be your pastor, but maybe it's a district superintendent or a presbyter or someone else that God put in your life. I'm not saying it's wrong to ask someone to mentor you, it's not,  but what I saw going on is.

Young men would pick two or three men to be their mentors. But then if all three of them advised them  against what they wanted to do,  they just got rid of that group of mentors and got them another group. 

Right. 

And of course that means.  If you, if you control the authorities in your life, you are the authority  in your life, and that's a very dangerous position to be in.

 You mentioned some pastors don't want their young preachers to have multiple mentors that may be part of. Their feelings about that, that, well, you covered it when he's a pastor is is the primary and that's what he's the primary. And I think if he knows he is, and you make sure he knows he is, he's not going to have a problem with you having other input in your life. 

Yeah, I, I have seen ministers have a pastor. And then they had a mentor that they seemed to value just as equally. And I wanted to, that's what I was asking you to address. And you hit the, again, 

equal is a funny word in this, but any mentor worth his salt is not going to conflict.  With a protege's pastor.

He's not going to do that. If he does, you do need a new mentor  because he doesn't have your best interest at heart.  

I just wanted someone to hear it from you instead of me.  Thank you.  That's when I love the way you brought that out about choosing your mentors. Cause you're exactly right. If I,  that's awesome.

And I remember when that was a push, I do remember that.  

Yeah. And there's nothing wrong again with your,  I have young men come up to me and ask me to mentor them. I tell them I'm a terrible mentor. I'm so very sorry. I'll be happy to mentor you, but that's going to boil down. If you have a question, give me a call or send me a text because I'm not going to be  sending out weekly Bible.

Studies, it just, I don't, I'm mentoring, if you will, the young men who are in my and women that are in my classes at Hershey University. And I don't have time to do a whole lot outside of that. And of course, with my preaching, but I love young preachers and I help them any way I can. But so I don't believe there's anything wrong with it.

I think it's  when you pick one, then you submit to that mentor.  You listen to them. And if they say, I don't think you're ready to go here and take this church, you should submit to them.  And that's one reason I think you should have  some mentors, at least in your life that you didn't put there, that God put them there. 

And so you, you, you're submitted to them, not because,  you know, you like their preaching or whatever, but you're submitted to them because they are the authorities that God placed in your life. And of course that begins with your pastor.  

And speaking on that, when you mentioned yourself and I know how busy you are, I did a quick inventory of the people that I  think that I met, I mentor,  and it's a literally a one hand. 

I don't have time  to mentor more than that because I'm, I'm investing myself into them. And  I, I feel that if someone was to  collect  mentees, like they collect jewelry, how much time are they being able to put into them? People that's more of. So be careful if your mentor has too many people that he cannot, he or she cannot invest in you.

Well, 

again, and, and a mentor has to have at a personal level and understanding. And he has, he can't just say, Hey here's, here's a great thought I had the other day and send it out. That's not mentoring. All right. It's good. There's nothing wrong with it. And it's a wonderful blessing, but a mentor is someone who is connected with your life.

And that takes time.  And you're right. I, I have friends that'll tell you I'm mentoring  pastors, the 10 largest churches in my district. Okay.  But that must be all you're doing if you're, if you're really mentoring them,  

but 

I'm not denigrating that. That's wonderful. But I don't, I don't think that's mentorship.

I think that's influence. I think that's being an advisor and a help and it's wonderful, but it's not mentoring when we talk about  what mentoring is. 

And for the record those, those five were in my church that I pastored. 

You can imagine someone,  you know, some of our largest churches filled when I pastored new life, I don't remember how many preachers were in that church.

And I, and I don't mean headquarters officials, but preachers that that's their home church.  You know, we offered training and all of that, but even at that, to be in.  Involved every week connected mentor was a challenge and so we developed ways of  other staff members, other pastoral staff members that were involved in mentoring these young preachers. 

All right, well, let's let's bring it home.  Give me some practical tips. On preparation. We know the givens, the prayer, the fasting reading in studying the Bible. Now that's a broad topic.  Well TF 10, he said he wouldn't go to bed when he, when he started his ministry, he wouldn't go to bed until he had mastered  three, I don't remember.

It was three verses of three chapters. I don't believe you have to do, you have to do what works for you. I believe, but  what, what's your college professor? How do you tell someone a practical. Without intimidating, without them feeling overwhelmed, a practical way of studying the Bible and overall preparing what we're talking about tonight.

Well, I think, I think in my, in, in my book, I talk about the difference between a, what we might call a pure scientist research scientist and a inventor, for example, a engineer, a chemical engineer or whatever. And the difference is simple.  A research scientist, an experimental scientist,  discovers principles and fundamental truths,  but  does not apply them  to everyday life. 

I, I, I think the example I use was Michael Faraday, who basically discovered the principles behind the modern world, the principles.  Behind the dynamo that generates electricity what we still do today to generate electricity. He discovered that in an experiment.  It's also the same,  the same principle that  behind the electric motor that takes the, the electricity that's generated and turns it into power to get things done, but he did not invent.

the electric motor. He found the principles behind that. But men like Westinghouse and Edison and, and Tesla and others  took that,  took those principles, those ideas and converted them into something that worked in the everyday world. A preacher should be both.  We should always know more about the scripture than anyone else in our church.

Yes. 

Now I know that's It's, you know, that's a generalization, you may have a,  you may have a Bible scholar in your church with a PhD in theology. I'm not saying you gotta, you know, I'm just saying, you must have the general knowledge, the understanding of theology, the, the Concepts and principles that the Bible reveals about God and about humankind and about  salvation and about the earth and about heaven and hell and all of those.

We need to master those.  But then  a preacher has to study the scripture from a very practical standpoint. And that is, how do I present this principle in an interesting, captivating,  spiritually moving way that will bring a response  from those who hear me? And that's the practical application of scriptural knowledge. 

So preparing to be a preacher means, yes, Yes, you study the pentateuch. Yes, you study Christology. Absolutely. You study pneumatology. All of that's true. We need to but we need to also understand how to preach the oneness of God in a way. That people will respond to it and will enter, will enter into that truth in a very real way.

And same thing, of course, with our soteriology,  our salvation message. It's one thing to present it from a cerebral position,  but most preachers aren't dealing with theology majors. They're preaching to people who are hurting, who simply need answers. And, and so a preacher approaches scripture from those two directions.

It's double the work,  but it's necessary to do it. We also have to understand people.  That may be as great a challenge As our understanding of scripture,  if we don't know what makes people work, if we don't have a way of understanding people coming from a background that we never experienced, if we cannot relate to folks who are hurting, who are  Despairing who are struggling with depression and fear.

If we cannot reach them, then we will fail in our ultimate calling. And so understanding what makes people what they are and understanding it, not just from a clinical point of view to try to help them. But understanding from a heart, from a spiritual, a compassion point of view is vital for a preacher.

And most of us that doesn't come natural. We have to learn it.  And so there's a lot of work to do there. Then, of course, a pastor has to understand economics and understand counting and understand maybe even building and architecture and, and zoning laws and  on and on and on. And so no wonder it took Paul 10 years to get ready.

No one.  

Well, it sounds like you just added more to the question. But you actually answered it when you said double the work. That's the practical tip. You just got to double, you got to work hard. So if I had to give someone, if they were to ask me, Mike, how do you do this?  I would tell him to stay inspired. 

If you stay inspired, if you remember the call, remember why you're called inspired,  then you'll do the work, but it is double the work. 

Well, my final idea on preparation is this. It never ends. 

It never ends. 

You continue to learn. You continue to apply yourself.  Paul.  Was well into those 20 years of ministry  when he said, I have not yet arrived. 

I count not myself to have apprehended,  but this one thing I do  for getting those things, which are behind. I press toward the mark of the high calling of God in Christ. Jesus.  Paul is simply saying, you never stop preparing because. The next door will open and you need to be ready for  it. And we're not talking about a life change.

We're talking about multifaceted ministries that God opens a door to a language group or to an ethnic group or to a new section of town that has no church. You've got to be ready for that. And so  you never get to the point where you say, okay, this is what I was preparing myself for. So now I've arrived.

You never arrive, you constantly apply, learn, commit, do the hard work and God keeps opening doors of opportunity.  

That's awesome. Listeners that book he referenced was called we preach and it is phenomenal. I really, matter of fact, I made it Required reading for my staff. I do that. I I'm a big believer in preparedness and training and I do pick books and make them make them.

They agree. Then, you know, they, they, they, they believe in the process, but that was one of the books that I required them. Thank you. 

I'm glad it's a tool for you. 

Yes, yes, sir. The first two or three chapters is about the importance of the preacher. That'll light a fire under you. Then the rest of it is some the mechanics of it.

And I did like the part about Faraday, how you got to read his actual writings and see us know that was an experience.  So and if, for those of you that are like me and traveling a lot, it's on audible narrated by LJ Harry. He was on the podcast just a couple of weeks ago.  So but by all means do check out that book.

We preach, I highly recommend it. I was going to do a.  Episode on just that book alone. Cause it really was,  I tried to introduce my pastor and he told me he already reads it twice a year. So great deal  elder. I'm so honored that you would take the time and I know you're busy. I appreciate you.

Congratulations on Ershon  becoming a university accredited everything. When you, when, when we're going to see In the playoffs.  

And so what's being played off, I assume  

the congratulations. 

I know that's a big deal. We have great leadership. I'm just I just teach my classes and they're just great leadership and leading that school to great Heights.

And we're, I'm most excited that.  Of course, I, I'm involved in the, what we call Christian ministries, essentially the Bible school part, but  more and more we're offering classes for young people that aren't called to ministry, but they need a place to get a college degree. That doesn't indoctrinate them in a lot of worldly extremist ideas.

And that's what Urshan will be, is offering now through communications, organizational leadership human services, which is basically counseling and, and so on, and there will not long from now we'll be adding a graduate degree. In human services so that students can leave Urshan University with a master's and immediately be licensed as social workers, high school counselors,  all kinds of things.

human services and just imagine an army of apostolics out there counseling high school kids and  slipping in, you know, the real answers. And and not only that our kids need a place to go where they're still exposed. Every student there has to take the apostolic identity  Classes and all of them come to chapel, all of them are, you know, required to attend a  apostolic church in the area while they're there.

So it's, it's a, it's a new experiment and it's going good and growing. And I'm excited about it. Can't take any credit, but I'm excited about it.  

Well, let's see. There's also the book Amnon had a friend and what to do when cheated. Do you have any other book that I haven't caught yet besides those three?

We met 

yet. I've got another sermon book in the works and, and then another one in the, just getting off the ground. So, well, let me tell 

you, we'll have 

a few 

more. Don't take as long this time as you did with, with we preached to put it on audible.  Okay, well,  

I drive kind of above my pay grade, you know, when, when you have a publisher, it's kind of in his hands, but I'll, I'll encourage them to do that because I know I use Audible a lot.

So 

yeah, I travel so much that that's how I ingest my books is through Audible. 

Thank you very much. One last thing, if you would plug the Urchin Pulpit Podcast. 

I would, I would appreciate it. Jonathan McClintock and I have a podcast tied in with our Urshen pulpit conference, but we do it every week. And it's all about preaching. That's, that's what we talk about. 

it's pretty new. We started it back in March February. So we just, just got it rolling

 Well, thank you so much for coming 

on brother. Thank you. 

My pleasure. I appreciate it.