The Importance of Accountability with Kyle Maddox

Episode Overview:
In this episode, titled "The Importance of Accountability," the host is joined by Reverend Kyle Maddox to discuss various aspects of accountability in ministry. Reverend Maddox shares his personal journey, the role of accountability in leadership, and how it has shaped his ministry. The conversation covers practical insights, scriptural foundations, and personal experiences, emphasizing the significance of being accountable to God, leaders, and peers.

Key Insights:

1. **Personal Accountability**:
   - **To God**: Accountability starts with being responsible to God. Romans 14:12 emphasizes that everyone will give an account of themselves to God. This foundational accountability influences all other aspects of ministry.
   - **Words and Actions**: Matthew 12:36 highlights that individuals will have to account for every careless word spoken. This stresses the importance of mindful speech and actions, especially for those in ministry.

2. **Mutual Accountability**:
   - **Peer Relationships**: James 5:16 encourages confessing sins to one another and praying for each other, promoting mutual accountability among peers. This builds a supportive community where individuals can grow together.
   - **Choosing Confidants Wisely**: It's important to be selective about whom to confide in. Not everyone is equipped to handle sensitive information, and sharing with the wrong person can lead to unintended consequences.

3. **Accountability in Marriage**:
   - **Adjusting in Ministry**: Reverend Maddox shares how he and his wife adjusted to different levels of involvement in ministry. His experience underscores the need for patience, understanding, and communication within a marriage, especially when both partners are involved in ministry.

4. **Leadership Accountability**:
   - **To Pastors and Bishops**: Hebrews 13:17 emphasizes obedience and trust in leaders, as they watch over their congregation and will give an account of their oversight. Respecting and submitting to pastoral authority is crucial for spiritual growth and church harmony.
   - **Trust and Obedience**: Having trust in leadership, even when there are disagreements, is essential. Pastors are human and can make mistakes, but they are also divinely appointed to guide and lead.

5. **Practical Application**:
   - **Creating a Circle of Trust**: It’s beneficial to have a small circle of trusted individuals for mutual support and accountability. This group can provide honest feedback and prayerful support.
   - **Open Communication**: Encouraging open and respectful communication with leaders can lead to better understanding and stronger relationships. Trusting pastoral guidance is essential, but so is voicing concerns in a respectful manner.

Actionable Takeaways:
- **Cultivate Accountability**: Regularly assess your accountability to God, peers, and leaders. Ensure that your actions and words align with your spiritual commitments.
- **Select Trusted Confidants**: Build a small circle of trusted friends or mentors who can provide support and accountability. Ensure they are capable of handling sensitive information.
- **Respect Leadership**: Trust and submit to pastoral guidance. Open communication can help address concerns and build stronger relationships within the church.
- **Foster Mutual Support**: Encourage a culture of mutual accountability within your ministry or church community. This can lead to a more supportive and spiritually enriching environment.

Reflection:
This episode highlights the multifaceted nature of accountability in ministry. Through personal stories, scriptural references, and practical advice, Reverend Maddox and the host provide a comprehensive look at why accountability is crucia

Transcript

The Importance of Accountability
 Today's episode, I've got a fellow podcaster on with me. I've got Reverend Kyle Maddox, and we're going to talk about the importance of accountability.

We're going to go through all the different levels of accountability and how it applies to you. Let's get started.  Kyle has been in the ministry for 18 years. Well, he almost sounds old, but he's not really, he's been married 10 of those 18 years. We'll talk about that in a second to Kara. And she's a vital part of his ministry.

They're both from Flint, Michigan.  There they served in many different capacities at South Flint Tabernacle under Bishop Robert Henson. They now sit under Pastor Nicholas Robbins at LifePoint Church in Sautilla, Mississippi. He serves as the assistant pastor and the assistant to the general chaplain of Christian prisoner ministries of the UPCI.

And it was that calling that moved them from Michigan to Mississippi.  I said, he, he's a fellow podcaster. He has his own podcast called life and ministry. We'll talk about that in a minute.  Kyle, tell us about that transition. So you were in the ministry for eight years. Now I've been in the ministry.  I forget how long now, but I've been married 24 years.

I was married first before I answered my call. And I can't imagine trying to change the mindset or whatever. Trying to adjust to that. Tell me how that went for you.  

So just, just to be honest, it was really, that was probably, that's probably been the hardest transition  in, in life and ministry both before marriage and after marriage I've always been the type that was just, I'm always on the go, just let's go, let's be on the move, let's get going, we got things to do, where my wife, she's more, been more of a reserve person, likes to stay at home.

Loves ministry, loves God, lives, has lived for God most of her life. All of that's great, you know, but then when we got first married, I've already, I was already on the go, are already heavily involved in ministry. And she was like, no, I'm, I'm good. I, I'm not going to go to that meeting or I'm not going to go to this, you know, whatever.

And I'm like, At first,  this is me, this is who we are, I thought we agreed to this, and it was hard, it was tough, but God started to deal with me, and he said, you know what, slow down, relax,  she's different,  and it got to a point, you know, it was a very frustrating time, in the beginning, hard, tough, you know, I had my mindset, she had hers, But I tell you, you know, God, God's God got a hold of me.

And I'm thankful that he did because it got to a point where I just, I just quit asking her if I had a, if I had a meeting or if it was something we both had to be at that, you know, obviously she went, but it was something that I just wanted to go to or wanted to be a part of. And it got to a point where I just quit asking her, quit telling her.

I will, I'll see you in a little bit. I'll be, I'll come back. And I just quit asking. And it got to a point I don't can't tell you today. Can't tell you. But I just told I got to a point where I was going ahead in somewhere and she's like, oh, wait, wait, wait, I'm going with you.  Oh, I'm like, wait, what you're doing?

What? Hold on. Wait, let's  that put me in my tracks like.  You're, you're going with me, let's come on, let's go. And it just from there, it just, and so thankfully I was, you know,  thankful to be sensitive to God and, and prayer and thankful for that moment that we had into that. He just said, relax, let her be yourself.

And over time it'll, it'll, she'll come around and I'm so glad she did. 

Yeah, man. I, when I was looking up, when you gave me your information, I saw that and boy, I wanted to talk about it. Because.  First of all, when you're old, when you get married older, it's already hard enough to adjust from being single  to being married.

But I can only imagine. And I, I literally, I can only imagine cause I got married at 18. Sure. Just a month after my 18th birthday, I put it off. I should've got married at 17, but I didn't want to get married that young. I wanted to at least be 18. So I, I can only imagine having, Being an adult, you know, that long and then in the ministry for that long and trying to just, boy, that's,  you know, and that, 

that, that was tough, you know, it really, it was, it was tough, you know, and I, I will say, you know, just, and just to give you a little history of how we, you know, we've known each other, most of our life went to the same home church, all of that.

And she, you know, has, you know, left the church for, for a few years. And it's crazy looking back when she was, while she was gone, I would ask my mom,  now my mother in law, how's Kara doing? What's Kara up to? Have you talked to her lately? Different things.  And didn't even have an idea that I was even interested in her.

Well, fast forward to us dating and two months, check this out. Two months after we were dating,  not talking about the future, not talking about marriage. I had her ring and lay away because God, God was like, she's the one. And I'm like, wait, God, hold on.  You want me to, we're not even talking about this yet.

And I w I don't recommend that to anyone  still to this day,  because you definitely need to make sure she's the right one. But yeah, so it's, it's been an interesting ride, but I'm, I'm, I'm grateful for who God's given me. 

I understand that. I don't recommend anyone get married at 18.  That's a good point.

You know, especially in this day and 

hour we live in. Yeah. I happen to be in the Navy and moved away, you know, but yeah, I'd, I'd I try to talk the kids out of it, you know, but okay,  well, let's move on. I'm really intrigued by your role as general chaplain of Christian prisoner ministries.  I have not had the  privilege in a long time, but my F I cut my teeth in the jail and the prison ministries between Pensacola, Florida, and.

Arkansas, I had a prison ministry at Warner max  and man, I loved it. And the only reason why I had to give it up was because my job,  I lost my job and I get another one and I no longer could attend those services  in the, in the opportunity to return has never again presented itself, but man, I love that.

Tell me.  Tell me about your role in that. 

Absolutely. So let me give a little bit of a history. You know, you, you'd said you, you, you cut your teeth on, you know, that's where you started in the ministry. Honestly, that's, you know, besides some little, you know, you know, other stuff that, you know, the church had me do, you know, clean the church with different things, that's really where I started my ministry.

And I tell you what I recommend any young minister, any, any person who's just starting out in the ministry, not sure where their ministry is going. You know, check out prison ministry, check out jail ministry. Cause that's what I did. I started when I was 18 years old. Back up a few years. My dad, he was heavily involved.

You know, we're the only church that, you know, in the, in the Genesee County where Southland tabernacle resides that it was allowed to baptize at that time, the only church. And the county to be able to baptize. And he would go in every month with the, with the church group from the church baptizing people.

And I would always want, then I want to go, I want to go, I want to, let me go. Well, you had to be 18. Well, that was my goal. When I turn 18, I'm going to get involved in jail in prison ministry. And that's what I did. And it just started from there. And I tell you  again, back to recommending it to a young minister.

I'm telling you, it gives you everything  there is to minister. You get your counseling, you get those one on ones, you get the, you get to preach, you get to evangelize, you even get to pastor, believe it or not, because a lot of times you are the only pastor figure that they will have. And it's, it was, it's been an incredible ride.

And just  fast forward, you know, a few years, I, you know, I got involved in the district level of Christian prisoner ministry. So I served as the section or the district press district presbyter district CPM Christian prisoner ministry secretary for the district of the Michigan district. And did that for a few years, got involved and met brother Robbins, who is the general chaplain of the CPM.

became district director, district chaplain, and a few years after that became a regional director with C. P. M. And serving multiple states and then a few years after that became the assistant to the general chaplain. And that's why will, if I could be honest, I would I regret to an extent getting involved in that because again, we, I love prison minister.

I love jail ministry. That's more of an administrative role being the assistant, the general chaplain. And so I don't get to go involved, get dealt. I don't get to go into the prisons and the jails as much as I used to. And but it's, it's an incredible ministry. I encourage you prison ministry dot faith.

Is the website of Christian prisoner ministry. So if you're involved or currently involved or thinking about getting involved, we'd love to have you be a part.  

That is all you're so right. And I remember,  and I know this is not the  topic, but I  just wanted to share one of my favorite inspirational stories that happened to me.

We got started  in Escambia County jail in Pensacola, Florida. They have two County jails there.  And I like how you said the only church allowed to baptize, because that is a touchy subject. Absolutely.  And especially, you know, I'll be honest with you, I, I didn't have a lot of favor being a oneness because a lot of the chaplains are Trinitarian and they're protective of that.

And we had to be very delicate, you know, we couldn't go in and there and cross swords with them. We had to be delicate and let God handle it. And we did get where we could baptize, but. And in that particular jail, we had night services on Sunday night and there was a little room that they would,  these were, this was an open pod  jail.

Okay. This was, these were not isolated cells. This was an open pod, like a misdemeanor pod,  but they had a little room there for, that they, we could go have church in  for whatever reason, this one night that room was closed and we had to try to have church inside the open pod.  Amongst the entire population of 120, 130, whatever was in there in a little bitty corner. 

And I was trying to be respectful because I know not everyone inside the, the ones that wanted to gather gathered around and other folks were just, they were watching TV, they were playing their cards. They were doing other things that people do in jail. It was all the environment.  And I remember what I was preaching.

I remember the anointing getting ahold of me. And all of a sudden I noticed that my, my congregants were getting weird and acting around and I could. And it caught my attention, so I stopped  and I, and I heard the jailor yelling something and I said, am I in trouble?  No, for the aides, listen to what she's saying. 

And I listened, and she had made everyone in that pod stop what they were doing, get in their racks, and listen.  Wow. And for the remainder of that service, I had the attention of the entire floor.  My God. Man, it was awesome. 

That's a, that's a testimony in itself. Again, I mean, this is a subject, honestly, I recommend you maybe having another episode about, because it's their story after story, but in reference to Flint there was a time that they, we didn't get to baptize it, as you said, People, people aren't happy with us oneness people but we actually, back when Brother Charles Mahaney, he was the original creator of CPF, Christian Prisoner Fellowship at the time, and we actually brought him into Flint, and he went to court with us to get, cause there was a sign, and still was a sign in the lobby of the jail that there will not be any baptisms or weddings performed in the jail.

And even after the court honored and  let us move forward, the sign still stayed in the lobby that there would not be baptisms. And oh, my Lord, would we did we ever get fights and arguments and people coming against us? But the sheriff at that time was Robert. He said, as long as I'm sheriff, my pastor, my church, South Flint Tabernacle, which he was just a kind man.

He, he said, they'll always baptize. And so it's been, it's an incredible story and great things came about many thousands of people baptized, fiddle, the Holy ghost. I love it. 

Well, that's an idea. I may have to  get you back in a couple other.  We may just have a apprentice or prison ministry. 

That'd be awesome.

Brother Robbins would love that. He he's it'd be great. We'd love to do it. 

Yeah. Stay with me on that. Text me again in a couple of weeks. We'll, we'll, we'll work on that. I will. All right. So onto the topic. I gave you the trust of picking the topic. That's scary. Yep. Yep. So you chose the importance of accountability.

Start us off.  

Well, and I will say that  I started, you know, Brother Henson is an incredible man of God and that was, that was one of his big things right from the beginning when he, when you, when you said you had a a ministry, or you felt called to God, that was one of the first subjects he would talk about is accountability.

Because if you do not have accountability,  and we'll get into some, you know, like you said, different levels, but if you don't have accountability, you're not gonna last, you're not gonna go far, you're not gonna have that covering. Because accountability does bring covering. And so Romans chapter 14, verse 12, let's just get right into it. 

I'm reading out the NIV version says, So then each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.  This verse here emphasizes personal responsibility. Number one, if we, if we want to have accountability, if we want to be accountable to someone, God gives us a power of choice.  And so we have to take that responsibility and say, okay, pastor, okay, bishop or whoever, or okay, God, let's talk about this.

That's the first level is giving ourselves to God, being accountable to God. God gives us the power of choice. It's our responsibility. If we want to be accountable, or if we don't want to be accountable and their stories, we can, I'm sure we can get on that subject and have an  episode about that of stories we know of, of people that were not accountable, but ultimately the first.

Level of accountability is to God, and we have to be accountable not only for Our own actions, but the things we say the places we go and at the end of the day We will eventually and ultimately have to answer to god whether we're accountable to him or whether we're not  

Absolutely. I was pulling up the definition because we use that word a lot in the ministry It's a it's a hot hot word, you know hot key topic accountability But I can honestly tell you  I don't remember anyone actually telling me what it is. 

That's good. So you know, and even now in, in the Webster's dictionary, it just says the quality or state of being accountable.  Okay. Well, that's kind of an oxymoron. I mean, what does that mean? You actually, the willingness to accept responsibility or to account for one's action or the liability to answer to someone as another, another dictionary put it, you are responsible for an answerable to. 

To be called on to render an account. Or answerable to,  we don't like that.  I can't tell you how many times I hear a man tell me, or even a woman, I've got a problem with authority.  Then get out of the ministry.  

Absolutely. And that I tell, I mean, I tell you, and again, I don't want to get on the subject, but we know of horror stories, if you will, of, of individuals and ministries that, could have been and were powerful ministries.

But somewhere down the line,  whatever happened, situations, life happens, things unhealthy, things on things happen, get us off track, get us distracted. And we don't want to be accountable. And we lose accountability when there's a lot of times when things happen. That's typically when people start to Lose that accountability, lose that answering up when they make a mistake.

And that, if we're going to make it in ministry,  we're going to make mistakes. And, and that's one thing I love about Bishop Henson is right from the beginning. He said,  you're going to make mistakes. Sorry to tell you, but you're going to make mistakes, but it's not that we don't make mistakes, but we have to be accountable to those mistakes 

and everyone, whether you're in a ministry or not, everyone is accountable to someone.

Absolutely.  



So Matthew 1236 again, read it on the NIV says, but I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken here in this scripture, Jesus highlights the importance of our words  and our actions suggesting that we are responsible for even the seemingly insignificant things we say.

But also of the things we do, those in the ministry, you are going to be in the light, whether you want to be or not, people are watching, people are looking, people are, they're checking you. They're out the thought you were a Christian. You said this or whatever.  we're gonna be in the light. But at the end of the day, we're gonna have to be careful.

We have to give account. There will come a day whether we want to be accountable or not, there will come a day that we will have to give account for the things we say for the things we do for the places we've been. And that's one thing in my personal prayer life, just just not to get personal. But that's in my personal prayer life.

That's what I will actually pray God Forgive me for the places I've been. Forgive me for the things I've said. Forgive me for the thoughts that I've thought, but God also forgive me for the thoughts I haven't had,  forgive me for the places I haven't been, because I don't, I, again, I want to be accountable at the end of the day, we're accountable to God.

I want to, I want to be able to, for God to be able to hear well done, thou good and faithful servant, instead of. Depart from me. I never knew you. I want to be accountable to God. But let me say this. I'm sure anyone has heard this actions speak louder than words. We can say we're a preacher. We can say we're even a Christian,  but our actions will speak louder than our words.

We can say we can. We can preach a good message,  but it's the actions and the life we live after of what that will be. So be careful for the things we say. Be careful for the places we go because people are watching. We have to be accountable. 

Absolutely. The NIV uses the word empty word. Other versions will use the word careless word.

Yes. We have to give account for every careless word  and all transparency. I was,  that's probably one of my biggest weaknesses. It's not that I'm careless, but I'm blunt.  I don't like to take the long way. I like to be very direct because it's the quickest way. It killed me on online classes because they wanted me to contribute and get more involved.

And no, I'd rather just get to the point, but  my pastor would always tell, I can't tell you how many times I had to get called to the office as a minister. Because of things I said  with good intention, and he would have to remind me, you're not in the military anymore. You cannot talk to people that way. 

And my intention was never to  hurt them. Now as a pastor, every year I do an evaluation on my leaders. Very good. Because that's just something, you know, duh, if you don't, you need to do evaluation, but to be fair, I have created an anonymous survey on survey monkey where they can give me feedback that way, you know, that way.

It's a two way street and I get the same thing every year. I talk to them like they're stupid and I don't mean to,  and I'm working on it. My fear has always been when I. On the day of judgment,  when we look at that book of life, and we see all the empty pages,  the names that should have been there, and God turns me around and sees the people that I turned around, that I,  Now they're still, they're accountable for their own action.

And the old Testament talks about the messenger who did, who gave the warning of India, the story of the messenger who didn't give the warning. In both cases, they were devoured, but in one situation, the blood was on their hands.  What if the blood's on my hands because of the things I said? 

My God, you know, and that's you didn't tell us tell me we're gonna get into weaknesses and, you know, you know, personal experiences and stuff like that.

But, hey, we're here. So 1 of my 1 of my meetings with brother Henson. And that's 1 of the things that I'm not sure I'm not familiar with your pastor. But when you were called into brother Henson's office,  Most times, it was, you did this wrong, or you said that right, or he would at least question if something was brought to his attention, he would, it would be questioning and getting on the same page and whatnot, and this one situation, I, I, it was, I can't even recall what it was, but he's, I, he was explaining it and asked me to, you know, give my side, and I said, well, pastor, I said, that's not what I meant,  he said, but it's what you said. 

And so it's so important. And again, I told you before we got started  here  and you say, you know, the, the way you are is really, I've been told I need to be careful and I need to watch what I say. And I, you know, I can come across as harsh and, and I'm, I'm still a work in progress, but, you know, That's one of the things we have to be careful of the words we speak.

The scripture, it's not in my notes, but life and death are in the power of the tongue, I believe is what it says said. And we have to be careful because we, you,  you and I can talk and, you know,  chat and whatever, and. Some people may not want to hear our conversation  because we can understand each other differently.

But for those tuned in and listening to this episode, and thank you for taking time to listen to this episode, we have to be careful because you may  be saying something that you may mean nothing by it, but by the things you say, someone else may interpret it some totally different. 

Exactly. As a matter of fact, my next okay, so this is the podcast 22.

I'm recording it in advance.  21 will is called, perception is Reality, and we're going . Oh 

my goodness,  . Send that to me right now, please.  . 

I'm gonna record it tomorrow here in the hotel room, and it'll go out this Friday. And then this lesson, we'll go out the, the Friday after that. So I would have talked about this twice in two Fridays in a row, and I didn't plan on that, but that's just,  God needs someone to hear it.

Maybe I need to hear it twice.  But it is prevalent. You're absolutely right. We have to be careful with our words speak kindness, mercy, and generosity. Well said. Well done.  Next. 

Well, good deal. Well, James chapter 5, verse 16, and this, you said it, not knowing you are discussing this topic. Give or take, you know, two weeks in a row and didn't even know about it.

This is an ongoing subject. It needs to be talked about more. But moving on to the next point that I felt to share is James chapter five or 16, again, out of the NIV version says, therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

What this verse encourages us to do is have mutual accountability amongst our brothers and sisters in Christ. But let, I want, I really felt again, mutual accountability that kind of gives  to ourselves. But I really wanted to  share is I felt a caution. I shared this with our men here at the church, and I felt a caution when I read this and. 

And it was this. We want to have mutual accountability. We want to share. We want to, we want to get something off our chest,  careful who you open up to. 

Yes. Don't 

just, don't just open up to anyone and everyone, because I'm telling you what I've been there. I'm sure brother Yates have been there multiple times through our ministries.

And, and again, that's one of the lessons I've learned and I'm still learning to this day is be careful. You want, I know things get tough. Things get hard. You want to just get your it off your chest, but not everyone is your  friend. That's what happened to Samson.  Yes, sir. And at the end of the day, the scripture says that God is the, he's, he's, he's a friend that sticketh even closer than a brother.

So even our own brothers and sisters in Christ, even our own family can hurt us. And so just be careful. Again, I'm all for that mutual accountability. I'm all for having a friend and I'm all for having people that I can confide in. We all need them. But there's people that I will purposely share things with just to see. 

If it'll come back,  because again, what that does is it proves, and I think I've made a gotten ahead of myself. Cause I want to, I want to touch on something else in that first initial deal, but can I do that? Because I want, I want to know who, who I can trust and who I can't trust. Because if, if I, if you prove yourself that you're not, if you're not trustworthy, guess what I'm not saying, I won't give you another chance,  but there's a,  there's a saying, you, you burn me once and  That's on me.

Shame on you. Burn me twice. Shame on me.  

Absolutely. I didn't mean to cut you off, but I wanted to give another, another caution. It's not that they may not be trustworthy. Come on. As someone who's been to therapy and medication, they may not be capable.  They may not  be in a position to handle it.  And you may be tearing them down without even realizing it.

They may not have the strength to handle the mess that you just gave them.  So make sure that be careful who you give it to, not that they will run to somebody, but they may not be able to handle it.  

You know, and that's what, you know, and it really, I'm glad you really, it  leads me kind of into that, into this. 

I said a moment ago that I think I got ahead of myself. Everyone needs and should have that mutual accountability. We have to have it. It, it, it, it helps us. But I, what I recommend and I've, what I've learned and gained, gleaned from other people is having a circle.  Of three to five people, give or take, that's just a number.

Not saying you, it has to be three, not saying it can't be two, not saying it can't be six, whatever, having that circle of friends that you can talk to confide in, you know, just have fun, share be honest, be upfront with, but having that one, you have to, everyone has to have that circle of friends, but you have to have that one person. 

In your life, maybe it might be to whatever works for you, but having that one person that they know everything, they, that, that, that, that you share everything that you, they can, you know, they can fight in you, you can fight in them, obviously though, for those of us that are married, it should be our spouse, but at the same time, you also should have somebody that I think you can talk to and just be honest and upfront.

And I have what I, his name, Gary Kittle is my best friend and they're in  And he knows everything. I share everything with him. He shares things with me. He's my personal prayer partner, my armor bearer, if you will. And again, you have to, and I know if I share it with him, brother Kittle. It ain't going anywhere.

And we, we all need those people again, have that circle, but have that one, have that, those two people in your life that you can, when you know, you give it to them, it's safe. And because again, being in ministry, it's, it'll hurt you or it'll break you, or it'll help you rather than to have that one person or have that, no, no, who you can trust.

Absolutely.  

And it's okay to ask them before you. Confine if they're able to handle it like, you know, 

and you said that, and I'm, again, I'm glad you brought that up about that because again, some people they're good people. They're, they, they love God. They, they live for God. They, they're, they're wonderful people, but they just dealt with life a little bit different than you have.

And maybe they can't take what you've shared. And so again, be careful. And again, having that circle of that three to five or whatever the number works for you. Yeah. You put them in categories,  you know, if this one person can only handle the fun stuff, well,  that's all you send them and vice versa.  

And as a pastor, I have to reference that last part of that verse yes. 

Those who live,  I don't know the NIV, but the effectual,  the fervent prayers of a righteous person availeth much is what the King James says. Yes.  The Bible is pretty blunt from Genesis to Revelations that God  does not, the only prayer he owes the sinner is a repentant prayer.  

Yeah.  

So if your, if your prayer buddy is out running the streets.



Oh,  

what's going to happen? How are you going to talk about that? 

Yeah. You know,  it's, it's the righteous person that talks to God, that God hears, you know, our righteousness compared to him is as rags, but  he doesn't owe a sin or anything.  

Oh my Lord. So good. 

Anyway, that's another subject for another time.

I just, again, the, the, the pastor, I mean, I had to wait a minute. Let's talk about,  

and again, I've, I haven't, you know, I haven't had that, I guess, if you would say privilege of, of being called pastor, but for anyone in ministry,  I mean, anyone in, in, in living for God, we have to be careful. We don't know who's the watchman.

We don't know who's listening. Right? None of that. We have to be careful. So very good.  

All right, what's next?  

The last part is  out of, obviously, besides God, I think, you know, God being the most important one that we need to be accountable to. I really wanted to talk about this accountability to leadership, accountability to our pastor, accountability to a bishop, whatever the case might be.

Hebrews  chapter 13 verse 17. And again, NIV is one of my favorites to use. So I've used that, I think all of the scriptures here today, but, It says have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority because they keep watch over you as those who must  give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy,  not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

What this verse really stresses is the obedience is the importance of not only obedience, but also trusting our leaders who are accountable.  for oversight. And again, I'll just say that there's been times and I would be lying if and I've been a pastor. Let me just talk about me for a minute. If I'd be lying if I told you that I didn't agree with everything that Brother Henson are now  my pastor, Nicholas Robbins, I that I agreed with everything they said or agreed with everything they did or no.

But as my pastor, as my leader,  God, that's what if we're accountable to leadership, if we're accountable to God, number one. We're going to be accountable to leadership. And whether we like it or not, there's going to be things that our pastor, our bishop or whoever it might be in our life that they will tell us things we don't want to hear.

Right.  And that was one of the when Brother Henson released us to come to Mississippi, he said, Brother  Maddox, I love you. He's like, but there were times that I know.  I told you I said this or I said that and you didn't like it, but at the same time you, you obeyed and that's, that's the hard part is being able to obey, being able to trust.

But at the end of the day, as the scripture tells us. They're they're gonna have to give an account. And so if we always  go against them and not saying you can't go, you know, you can't question. I think it's very important. We should be able to question and ask questions. But at the same time, get and have accountability so much with your leadership that when they have to give that account, it'll be a great joy.

It won't be a burden because again, at the end of the day, if they have to, if it has to be a burden, ain't gonna be no benefit.  to us. But if they can give it to and it be a great joy, it will certainly be a great it'll certainly be a great benefit to us. I have a bishop and a pastor. Some of us need help.

Multiple help. Some of us need more than one. And so and that and that's important. You have to be accountable. And again, I'm not saying I've conquered this. No, I don't think none of us have will always be in that place of having to be accountable and not agreeing, not understanding things. But at the end of the day, We have to be accountable.

If we're not accountable to God,  we're not gonna be accountable leadership. But at the same time, I'll say we're not accountable to our leaders. I question our relationship with God, because if we have a great, strong relationship with God, we should have a great relationship with our pastor and vice versa.

We have a great relationship with our pastor. We'll have a great relationship with God and vice versa. If we don't, it won't be, it'll be a two way street. 

Absolutely. And we're not have listeners. We're not advocating  blind obedience. No, we're talking about realistic when the prophet, when the pastor or someone steps into the role of a prophet, when God has spoken to him, tells him to tell you something,  Think about that.

Think about what would have happened every time someone disobeyed Elijah. Think about what happened to Saul when he disobeyed Samuel.  It's the same thing. If, if God has put something on your pastor's heart and you disobeyed it, go back to the book of Kings, either one of them, go back to either book of Samuel and find you an example and get ready. 

Absolutely. That's what's going to happen. 

You know, and that, and that's so, so good because really not on the subject, but 9 years ago, I lost my dad very tragically in a car crash. And when I tell you it was, I went through some stuff that I don't think anyone should have to go through. But 1 thing brother Hanson said, and I kind of tie into what you were saying.

Is he said, and again, it was a struggle. It was a very, to be honest, I dealt with depression. I dealt with, I dealt with some serious stuff. And he said, brother, there's no problem asking God a question. No, no problem asking God why, or in this case, we're talking about accountability, leadership, not that's there's no issues asking pastor why  or why not? 

But when pastor responds, or in this case, he said, when God gives you that answer. You have to say you got to move on you got it. You got to submit to it You got to you got to obey it and that's i'm telling you again I said i'm glad you brought that up because There's no reason i'm not saying just submit and just just whatever, you know But if they're if they've heard from god if they're a prophet if if they're who god's placed in your life Now again if they're being you know  Doing anything that they shouldn't be doing well, that's that's a whole nother subject for a whole nother day But at the end of the day, you know  ask questions But don't, but then there again, don't be afraid of that answer that you're given and no, and I understand you, you have to submit, you have to obey. 

And it's been my experience.  It boils down to two things, trust  and flesh. 

Yes, sir. 

If you trust that pastor's intention,  if you believe with all your heart that They're not idiots and they're not trying to be jerks, and they're doing the best they can,  then what is the real problem?  Oh, the real problem is you just don't like the answer. 

You know? And that was one thing, and you brought that, you brought it up. There was an issue, and obviously I'm not, we're, we're not gonna get into it today, but there was an issue and, and I didn't agree  with something that B Brother Henson did and how he handled a situation. 

Right. 

And I, and, and it was one of those moments, I'm like, okay, you know, brother Henson.

It was one of those meetings. Why? What? You know? And he said, Brother Maddox, I'm so glad you've asked me. I'm so glad you've inquired, he said, because so many times as bishops, as pastors, as leaders were held to such a high standard.  And when we make a mistake or when we don't when we say something or react to a situation that we people may not like, people want to hold that to our, you know, well, you're a pastor.

Why did you act like that? But you said it. Pastors are human. Leaders are human. We're gonna make mistakes. We're gonna do things that we're not supposed to do. We're gonna say things we're not supposed to do. We're gonna react  negative ways. But at the end of the day,  they're our pastor. In this case, they're our pastor.

And so at the end of the day, we can't do anything for what they've done. We answer to God  for how we react, how we respond, how we how accountable we are or how accountable we're not. And so I want, I want to, I want to hear at the end of my life. I want to hear well done now. Good and faithful servant.

And the best way to do that is number one, being accountable to God, having those accountability partners. But at the end of the day, also being accountable to the leadership that God has placed in our life. And at the end of the day, if we do it the right way,  everything else will come. If it's a negative situation, it'll come out, but just be faithful.

Stay strong. God will help you stay. Stay accountable. Don't lose your accountability because we have to have it. It's a must. 

Absolutely. I'm going to make one more give an example since, 



And then I'm going to let you close it. Okay. Yes, sir. You were talking about asking, you know, it's okay to ask questions.

And I absolutely believe that if you do it respectfully, you know, you can't, you know, chest, but I want to give an example, give my pastor a shout out for how great he handled the situation. I had an idea for  a special type of service for the youth when I was serving as youth leader at our church,  but it was.

Something different, something unorthodox, something we had never done before. Okay. And I had  chewed on it and I presented it to him and he said, no. And I clammed up. He's the boss. He's a pastor. I said, yes, sir. And I got up to leave and he said, whoa, whoa, whoa, where are you going? I said, you said, no,  he could tell I was disappointed.

You know, cause my heart was in it. I really believed it was, I really believe God gave me that idea, but.  Pastor said, no,  he said, that's not fair.  I said,  you're the one that said, no,  how's it not fair? He said, you have had that idea on your, on your mind for how long.  And, and you, and you just presented to me in three minutes and you're getting up and walking out.

He goes fight for it. Talk to me, trust me with your conversation.  And so he allowed me to  discuss it with him and argue politely. You know, I said, okay, well, tell me what you don't like about it.  And he told me these things and I actually had, well, no, that's not an issue because of this. And that's not an issue because of that.

And I was able to dispel all of his concerns and I wound up winning it. And it became the best thing that ever happened to that youth group. Cause it developed them in a way that we couldn't do.  And I just want to give him credit for that because he stopped me and made me fight for it. When I, when my instinct military instinct was the boss said, no, I got up and walked out.

He said, no, no, no. Fight me for it.  And he made a good point. Cause he's right. Cause I chewed on it for four months. I had my argument. He didn't have a chance. So anyway, young minister, trust your pastor,  have a good conversation with them  and thank God for good pastors.  

I'm so glad go ahead. I'm sorry. 

No, I was telling you, close us up, wrap it up.

You know, and I'm glad you brought that up because it brought to my mind a situation, you know,  I'm maybe, I don't know if I should be ashamed or not, but I've had multiple meetings and, and situations and, you know, questions and whatnot, but brother Henson called me into his office and this is, this is what there were those moments and there will be those moments your pastor calls you and not for something you did,  but to check you. 

to check your spirit. And there was one situation that he now mind you, I was already involved in the ministers and training program. I was, I've already, I've heard, I already preached a little bit. I've already been involved in jail ministry and he brought me in and he said, brother Maddox,  he said, you don't have it.

You're not anointed. He said, you see, you've been, you've been serving and I'm thanking for your service. But he said, you just, it's just not there.  No, I'm like, I've been involved for ministry in ministry this long and you know, I've been serving and I've been going to the jail. I've been doing all this and,  and I'm not, I'm talking to myself, you know, in that moment.

And like you said, he's pastor. I have my argument. I have my, man, I want, God, you've, you've called me.  And I said, okay, yes, sir.  Meeting me meeting he prayed for. And that was one of the things and any good pastor will either, we'll start with prayer.  They'll meet with you,  they'll tell you a good thing, they'll tell you a bad thing, they'll tell you, you know, end on a good note, they'll pray with you, and you'll be gone. 

That's what happened. The very next morning, this was, I believe it was on a Friday, maybe, it might have been a Thursday, but I, I, Saturday morning, it was 7. 30, 8 o'clock in the morning, I was working security at the time, I was not awake yet, my shift just started. And I got a phone call by a private number. 

And just when you live in the Flint area and you go to South Flint Tabernacle, the private number most times was Bishop Henson. And I got, I got, I figured it was him. And he said, Brother Maddox, good morning. He just had one of those deep voices. And he said, yes, Bishop. Yes, pastor. You know, he's like, I'd like you to preach tomorrow morning. 

And I'm like, do what?  He said, I would like, I didn't stutter, Brother Maddox.  He said, I would like you to preach tomorrow morning. I'm like, Bishop, I thought I didn't have it.  He said, I was checking your spirit.  He said, he said, God, God, God promptly. And that was one thing that Bishop Henson spoke to you. If he, if he, if he checked you, God told him to, 

and 

he said, I respect you so highly.

He said, I, I, you took it. Well, you took it, you know, like a champ. In other words, he said, and I, he said, you have a word and I want you to give it tomorrow.  And so I said all that to say this, that there are, there will be those moments that you will have, and it may not be that same type of situation. Or like Brother Yates, he had an idea and it was,  it could have been a great idea.

But if pastor said no, and if that's the end of the answer, if that's the end of the, again, know your pastor, know your leader, and if they say no, and it means no, and there's no question, well, trust them as your leader, bless God, and God will honor you. But at the end of the day, if you have somebody like Brother Yates or even Brother Henson, he was very open to, for discussion,  question it, talk about it, but at the end, if once the answer is given, that's it.

That's it. God will honor you if you, if you respect your leaders, if you're accountable to God and you're accountable to leaders, God will honor you and God will elevate you in due time. 

Absolutely.  I was laughing for two reasons when you told me that first of all, what a great test. Okay.  That's great.  

It wasn't in the 

moment.

Yeah. And then I was thinking, if he caught me on the wrong day, I would have gladly turned my keys. Thank God  there are days when I wish I wasn't called. And I'm not afraid to tell you that there are days when I, yes, sir, man. I wish I could be a saint on a pew and just come to church and be faithful. Amen.

And whatever the pastor says, do, do, and I'm no, I don't mean that to be ugly, but there are days where that would be tempting.  But no, God has put a call on us and we must answer that call and march on.  

Absolutely. 

Well, I appreciate your, your thought. It was very timely. It was good discussion. I hope our listeners enjoy it. 

Speaking of when I said our listeners tell us about life and ministry. What do you got going on there on your podcast? Where can they find everything? Tell me all about it. 

Well, I appreciate that, brother. Yeah. Let me just say that I'm very thankful for this opportunity and privilege to be on your podcast.

And for those that tuned in and listening, I encourage you to stay support, stay on point, stay on. This podcast, it's an incredible blessing to you, but I'm thankful for you giving me the opportunity where the age to plug in life and ministry. It's something that I created with God's help and with God's direction.

The permission of my pastor. Let's talk about accountability as we've been today and got the blessing and we've been doing it now for two years. And I originally started as a Facebook video series and long story short. It's just really grown. God has blessed it. And we're on all platforms.  Spotify, Apple podcast, different ones.

Facebook, I still publish. I started as a video series and I still have it on Facebook and publish the video episodes of the episodes that I record. But then also our life and ministry live announcements, life and ministry live is something that I created about a year ago. That is a  podcast recording with fellow pastors and ministers with my guest.

And so it just gives us the opportunity to interact and, and be a part of it. And so you do have to sign up for those. And so I, I published those on Facebook as well. The announcements of those monthly calls, they happen once a month. And we're just so thankful to have that privilege and opportunity, but we'd love to have you check out life and ministry again on Facebook, Apple podcast and Spotify and anything we can do to help you.

And that was the purpose of creating life and ministry was just to be a strength encouragement. But also there's those moments that God will challenge us. And that's what it's all about. We want to be successful in our life and ministry. 

Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much again, my friend. Look, I wish you all the success and we will work on getting up a prison ministry episode going on.

Absolutely. We'd love to do it again, prison ministry dot faith, but would love to have more discussions on it with me, brother Robbins, whoever you want to have, we'll get you connected  

that way. We can introduce the idea to.  New ministers, because you're right. That, that provided everything. I 

tell you it's, it's where it's at some, it's, it's not meant for everyone.

No. And so 

you gotta, you gotta find out where your calling is, but it'll prove your calling for sure. 

Yeah, I loved it. 

We'll talk about that next time.  Well, thank you so much, brother. I appreciate you, my friend. Thank you so much for letting me be on.